afaik, it occupies a similar place as Sage in Kit: Too much setup time, which goes against Kit’s great strength in the early game.
(I tried a Sage deck briefly. Curtain Wall sucks.)
I don’t think study guide is or ever will be worth it with the current card options. There are more efficient options, both in speed and cost to get the job done elsewhere.
I think the problem with Study Guide is nuanced: It’s good with Recurring Credits.
The issue is that if you want Study Guide to get good off those recurring credits, you have to not be using them to run. And if you aren’t running, you probably aren’t winning.
I wonder if a revisit to Study Guide once we have access to Multithreader would be warranted…?
1 Like
With sac construct in faction, and clot being really good with it too, study guide seems fine. Splash in multithreaders and play lock picks and you’ve got tons of sources to power it up. You can even stimhack. I don’t know why people think it’s that bad. Hell it worked in Congress.
1 Like
my main beef with study guide is the same as with torch - you genrally don’t need a huge decoder to deal with “true” codegates, and most corps will be careful not to let any of thier decent, tough ICE get Kitted.
There are those early game moments when you’ll try to rush out with a single archer (hoping you can’t find a second lockpick or ghost runner) or when they’ll rez a curtain wall just cause they can - but these types of plays invariably happen way before you can get study guide up and running. In almost all other cases, a refractor (or even a zu, yog, or gordian) would have served you better.
The thing is that you can spread the payments out vs torch. Early game how often can the corp rez a code gate that makes you spend 9 credits with study guide? The idea is to grow it as the game goes on. Theres always test run-> femme for those unlucky times early. Study guide is a long-term solution that takes the pressure off your econ once you’re extended into late/mid game. The real answer lies in constructing your deck to support those early challenges. Gordian has it’s downsides, cy-cy has it’s downsides, etc, and all those downsides are solved with SG (money spent pumping isn’t lost, works on multiple servers, etc). We currently do things to mitigate the downsides of the decodes we use, so why not adjust deck construction to mitigate the downside of SG? Usually the answer is program trash.
I think SG is just not flexible at all. Most of the time Kit runs 2 codegate breakers in her deck. This means often we smc for our first one.
Lets break down seeing an enigma rush attempt:
2+3 for smc or 3 out of hand
4 credits to bump it to 2 str
2 credits to break it or 1 if last click
I refuse to pay 9-11 credits to break an enigma and still not be able to get through Lotus Field, Turing, Tollbooth, little engine, upcoming archangel, etc.
This isn’t even to include ice that we do make code gates (Wrap around, WoS, architect, other common ice). It has a hard time breaking anything it facechecks early, which means kit doesn’t have a reliable code gate to get in with, which makes her ability null.
SG is bad because it’s not flexible when shapers, especially kit needs it most. SG doesn’t let you do much with kit early. Remember, this is a Kit thread, not a shaper thread. It has a well deserved spot with recurring credits, in decks that play slow, and lose at top tables. I think SG is fun and is playable, but it’s not near competitive (in my opinion).
5 Likes
[quote=“x3r0h0ur, post:167, topic:4233, full:true”]
The thing is that you can spread the payments out vs torch. Early game how often can the corp rez a code gate that makes you spend 9 credits with study guide? [/quote]
Any strength 3 ice.
SG costs 3 , 6 credits to boost to S3. Same costs to break as torch. If you aren’t going to count the cost to install , Elii and Lotus field would like a word.
totally agree on these points though. Study Guide means you are banking on the late game , where you can grin like an idiot when you are getting through their first ice and codegates for nothing. The problem is that this gets solved by clever corp play lategame (Popup as outer ice) and that you are giving up a lot of early agression. I wonder if recurring credits and Cy-Cy as a backup aren’t a solution. Install SG , Install Cy-Cy. use recurring credits to break into things , build study guide with leftover credits. Might be horribly cluncky.
While not wanting to stray from Kit too far, a local player has been having some success (or at least a load of fun) with Study Guide in Nasir. Nasir already loves recurring creds (multithreader in particular seems to be a great card for him), it’s another place for him to dump creds into along with personal workshop when he encounters ice/stimhacks, and when it’s buffed up to strength it gives you really cheap breaking of code gates which suits Nasir’s habit of running while low on creds even into the late game.
Also, you should have seen his little face light up when the corp picked up two bad pub during a recent tournament… He just kept pumping that Study Guide.
3 Likes
I think that I’m definitely on the Study Guide is for Nasir only side of this debate. The problem is, when it’s really good (free to pump for whatever reason) it’s only alright. You still have to pay to break subroutines and the Tollbooth toll. By the time you can afford Kit a worthwhile Study Guide, the Corp can put pop-ups on the outside of all their servers anyway.
Paintbrush surfer bro.
4 Likes
Now that haarp butcher and Foodcoats are seeing more and more play, I think it’s time for an update. If glacial is poking it’s head back into the meta with HB and Haarp is trying to kill me without running, something has to change. Here is my first attempt at adjusting kit the changing meta.
Concepts are:
-
fewer, streamlined multi digs via 3 TME for high impact runs through a big glacial rnd or just more cards seen against NEH / rush lists. SoT to act as 3rd legwork, or 4th TME. I had 1 RDI and took it out. Perhaps it will make it’s way back into the list.
-
Baby to replace Pro Co now that we have 3 popular NBN decks running that can and will trash Pro Co on first sight with BN. (Astrobiotics, Turtlebacks, Haarp butcher)
-
Plascrete to protect against haarp. (In testing against haarp with even ppvp kate with 2 plascrete, it’s a tossup it seems. It’s a closer match than originally anticipated.)
Here is the list. Thoughts?
I like the list. Very sensible.
comments:
What are the Clone Chips for? And I think you really want 3x Refractor just to increase chances you are getting out your Decoder rig. The one problem with Refractor Kit is that you need two cards out instead of one to be safe. Having 3x Refractor makes it that much easier to set up in a hurry. Perhaps -1 CC, +1 Ref?
Moar Kati? -1 Daily Casts (or CC) +1 Kati?
I think D&D is really bad for Stealth Kit.
You don’t really have a tag-me plan, even with 2 Plascrete, and Archangel is surprisingly irritating (Astros will be scored behind Wraparound / Archangel, and you will lose a 6-c Kati off an unlucky HQ access).
Here are my observations based on a bunch of testing, though:
- Legwork is a trap. Strong corp players ice HQ minimally if at all and resign themselves to bleeding points out of HQ. If you make 1 run a turn, either on a remote or HQ (2 runs if HQ is un-iced), that is more than enough to shake 4-6 points out of HQ in the early game, either via random access or hasty remote remote play, and you’ll probably get those points whether or not you have Legwork.
- Stimhack is a must against Glacier (so, in a roundabout way, is Clone Chip, since herk -> CC -> SMC is often a straight-up game-winning play there).
- Don’t play 2x Symmetrical Visage, 1x SymVis, 1x Personal Workshop is pretty much strictly better (they’re both 1-c drip cards, might as well not have the second one be dead). Also 3rd Kati is probably better than either.
- If you have Kati, Quality Time is near-mandatory, because early Kati tends to starve you for clicks to draw and install shit. This helps indirectly with the Archangel Problem by digging you to Stealth pieces.
- Hunting Grounds is surprisingly good - it solves the Tollbooth and Data Raven problems elegantly for zero MU if you can draw to it (and ignoring pop-up with a lockpick out is a bigger deal than I thought at first).
- Having either Corroder or Inti is very important to contest Wraparound plays.
That’s the end of actual observations from experience. After playing MaxX for a hot second, I kind of want to do an Influence package of something like 2x Imp, 1x Medium, 1x Stimhack, since that a) give a realistic tag-me win scenario (Medium + Imping combo pieces), b) justifies playing Scavenge, hence Cyber-Cypher, which helps with the Archangel problem and also with the Lady install cost problem c) punish un-iced HQ in a way that’s more impactful than Legwork but doesn’t require Magnum Opus, d) saves deck slots on RDI, TME, etc. But this probably sucks and it’s just off the top of my head.
I agree on nearly everything else but I’ve not been happy with personal workshop in my latest iteration. Theoretically it should be the same as baby but it doesn’t seem to work that way out in practice. Sometimes I didn’t have any resources I wanted to install on it, sometimes I wanted to be sneaking and hold a breaker in hand to bait out an agenda. With only 10-15 cards you want to host on personal workshop (fewer in @Four_Leaf 's version), it occasionally ran dry. Whereas with Baby, I never failed to get 1c a turn out of it. Eventually I decided that the bonus of having them both out late game wasn’t worth the reduced chance of seeing baby in my opening hand.
I think 2x Symmetrical Visage + 1x Kati are the bare minium you need for a kit deck. Getting Baby in your opening hand is so critical that I refuse to run fewer than 2. More Katis and 1x Personal workshops isn’t bad if you got the slots but you have to make room by cutting other things.
You kind of have to play 2 RDI to make it worthwhile.
Just run HQ more. 
@higgs_bozo solid points on a lot of the mentioned ideas. The list I provided was simply an untested starting point. I have a feeling Kit is going to feel super weak with the release of DnD. Your idea of importing that medium/imp package sounds like you want to play anarch lol.
@Kore Yeah I don’t find that I want PW either, but that’s only because I have a run event based deck. As you said, I have few things to install. Given that, I’m still going to test with 2 baby instead of 1. I think it’s the correct decision.
I feel like I want too much right now in kit… #deckslots
I’ve found Escher to be all the HQ pressure Kit really needs. Putting an Imp or Account Siphon (never claimed to be sane, and yes it’s bad) into Kit does also help pressure HQ, but with just Escher, it lets you basically ignore HQ and let Corp think they’re safe to just ice it once, and get a high-impact turn later on when you Escher through it and then stack all their code gates on whatever server you want into.
I’m all onboard the Baby. It is possibly the best card for Kit, outside of her breaker(s) and SMC. Daily Casts is also high on Kit’s list of Good Cards. Kati is also up there, since Kit loves to Draw, Run, Install, and Kati, not necessarily in that order.
After that, I like Parasite to kill Popup Window. If I’m using Parasite and plan to have it work, I need either Datasucker or Wyrm. Datasucker is a better card, but it folds to Blue Sun or anyone running CVS. It also takes more deck slots than Wyrm. I keep vacillating between the two, but right now the pendulum is on the Wyrm side of things.
I agree wholeheartedly that you need 2+ Plascretes with 24/7 being an existing card. It’s way too easy to just happen to die, when you did nothing wrong.
After playing with Yogasaurus, NRE Yog, Stealth Kit, Gordian, and Cy-Cy Kit, the most impressive suite is still the Stealth suite, especially because Inti and Dagger are perfectly serviceable breakers for most of your needs. The problem Stealth Kit has is Setup Time and Memory Cost. 3 Cloak and her breakers is 6 MU. To get that much, you need to either run a weird Console (Box-E or Toolbox, or other worse ones.) or run mem chips. And you can’t Parasite at the same time, which leans me towards packing Knifed or Spooned instead of Parasite… But then you lose the CC-Parasite ability…
I dunno; I feel like there’s just something a little bit ‘off’ about Kit right now, just barely not good enough…
You’re all nuts. Baby is 2 for a conditional drip of 1. It’s PPVP, if PPVP didn’t work in multiples. There’s a reason Kate only plays one, and it’s that a) seeing it early isn’t good enough to justify putting a dead draw in your deck and b) she can’t play four voicepad.
I heartily encourage you to test any other influence-free economy and/or draw card that isn’t completely nonsensical in the slot where you have your second baby (first baby is pretty good, though, I agree).
Do you find this happening to you very often? Usually, in my games, there’s a big tower on R&D and a big tower on a remote, and I can’t really find a way to re-arrange ice to make either cheap. This is especially true against HB and their
cavalcade of 2-3 subroutine ice.
I’m waiting for Panchatantra to come out. I feel like it’ll be good for her, and fitting into the whole her whole “Yoga” theme is a bonus.
2 Likes