Competitive Kit Discussion

Usually I can at least get the Architect or Ichi to the fronts and the Tollbooth/Quandary/Enigma to the backs. The best is if there’s three non-Code Gate ICE; each server gets one. It also is possibly the only thing that can win the RP matchup for Stealth Kit, as it’s otherwise miserable.

Ha. Troof.

RP is definitely the deck that ices HQ and Archives (with code gates, even) most reliably, and the one against which you gain the most benefit by code-gating the remote.

I might try an Escher / Datasucker build. I feel like there’s some synergy there.

Baby is closer to a Magnum Opus or ProCon that doesn’t cost 5+2MU, or just cost 5. It doubles your click efficiency, once a turn. It’s also sorta close to being a PAD Campaign… You become a Corp that gets a card and a credit at the start of the turn, and three more clicks. :wink:

PPVP is closer to Underworld Contacts, for anyone that isn’t named Kate. (If Underworld Contacts cost 1, it might see more play.) It gives you a credit a turn, conditionally. More importantly, it doesn’t double a click’s efficiency. It adds one. That’s why you can play multiples, because you need multiples for it to matter.

And I’ve already got playsets of Dirty Laundry, Daily Cast, and Diesel. Only 2 Kati; I don’t think the third is better than second Baby, though. The only one I’m not using is Sure Gamble, and that’s only because I’m very rarely floating that many credits in Stealth Kit. I’ll give it a shot in my next iteration and see if it works out; In every previous attempt, having to click up to 5 credits killed the card’s efficiency. Quality Time is a one-of that I have played twice in about 8+ games because I rarely had the money to play any cards I’d find off of it.

My next iteration will try dropping Parasite for Knifed, to try and mitigate the memory issue. I’ll drop a Baby for Sure Gamble and see if I can squeeze the full playset in.

Escher’s also a good way to bust up central lockout, since you can stuff something dinky over Archives to re-open cheap 'sucker farming.

I think QT is awful in Stealth Kit due to the already mentioned scenario. She just doesn’t have enough money to spend 3 to draw 5. It almost feels too bursty of a spend for her lol

3rd Kati improves both Sure Gamble and Quality Time by a substantial margin.

I do like Datasucker, and it is a good card, it feels weird in Stealth Kit with so much CVS floating around. It’s hard for Stealth Kit to make more than one run a turn, and because of that, Datasucker’s value goes down.

Now Yogasaurus Kit? Loves Datasucker.

I would say there’s 2-5 things wrong with Kit right now and forever, and they’re all missing influence points :smiley:

I agree with you on escher, pretty much every Kit deck could have it as a one-of imho. such a huge play for kit, it definitely wins games for me.

I’m somewhere between you and @higgs_bozo on baby. it’s not the end all and be all, but it’s very strong; Kit tends to play in a steady rhythm way more than other runners - clickwise my turns are often identical for many many turns in a row, meaning baby goes off every turn. it honestly might as well just be an underworld contacts with no link requirement, cause even when I don’t find it I’m still spending clicks to draw anyways.

wyrm is garbage, and datasucker is one of the most broken cards in the game in terms of both power and efficiency (yes, even in a CVS-heavy meta). it’s cheaper in every considerable way (also, if deckslots are tight, no reason you can’t just get one. you are a shaper after all).

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In general, I agree.
There’s a specific use for Wyrm here, though, and it’s Blue Sun. I don’t have the money or recursion to reliably use Lady like Kate can, and there’s no way I’m Parasiting the Curtain Wall with Datasucker tokens. Wyrm is the answer, if I want to keep using Parasite. It’s why I’m going to try Knifed instead and see what shakes out.

The niche is: Runner that only runs once a turn, and cannot deal with high-strength ICE more than twice without bankrupting. This fits Stealth Kit, and it’s not appropriate for any other runner I can think of. (Anarchs have access to D4V1D and recursion, other Shapers can use more recursion for Lady, and Criminal runs multiple times a turn, and Shutdowns expensive ICE.)

In closing, Wyrm super-bad, Datasucker super-good. Stealth Kit happens to like Wyrm+Parasite more than Datasucker+Parasite. :smile: (This is part of what makes me think Parasite might be the wrong choice for Stealth Kit.)

The strongest way for you to spend Influence against Blue Sun is definitely Crescentus, by a huge margin.

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This x100000

Yeah, my turns usually involve drawing at least once and installing at least one stealth thingie, which is why I prefer 1x Baby and 1x Personal Workshop, since either will drip pretty reliably if seen early.

Currently Testing:

Kit Knives

Rielle “Kit” Peddler: Transhuman (Creation and Control)

Event (13)

Hardware (10)

Resource (10)

Icebreaker (5)

Program (7)

10 influence spent (max 10)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to The Valley

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.


Grimoire. Cheapest +2MU available, and I’m trying to strictly stick to 6MU max (Breakers+Cloaks).
Legwork. Flex slot; open to suggestions.
Clone Chip. Wait, why is this here? :confused: This alone makes me think I’ve made some terrible mistake.
Scrubber. I hate spending actual money to trash your stupid BBG.
Clot. FA is the death of Kit… This is open to suggestion, however. (I feel in the current meta, this is the right call.)
Levy. Ehhhhhh… I want to Knifed more than once a game, I’m fairly certain.
2x Carapace. 24/7 News Cycle. That is all.
R&D Interface. I feel establishing the R&D Lock is what I want to do, more than Maker’s Eye or Indexing.
2x Ghost Runner. It’s weird because this feels like one of the worse cards in the deck.
2x Kati. For the life of me I can’t find a cut to squeeze the third one in, beyond cutting Sure Gamble or Dirty Laundry playsets, and for this iteration I’m going with the full playset on both of those cards.

Comments welcome!

Actually, that depends quite a lot on the rest of your deck and your drawing habits.

Let’s do some math on this (if I’m miscalculating something, feel free to correct me). The second Baby is basically worth how many times the first got triggered before you would’ve drawn it if you were only playing one copy. With 1 Baby in a 45 card deck, you are on average going to draw it when you are 22.5 cards into your deck. With two Babies, you are going to draw one of them 13 cards into your deck on average, or 9.5 cards sooner than if you only had one copy. If you ONLY draw cards by clicking, and ONLY draw one card a turn (ie. every draw nets you a baby buck), that means the second baby is on average worth 9.5 credits. That is very good value.

But let’s face it, almost no one plays like that. If you play 3 Diesels/IHWs/FISs, you’re only drawing 31 out of the 40 possible draws via regular clicks, or 77.5% on average. Let’s say you also draw two cards using regular clicks every other turn, which means you only get the credit on 66.6% of your regular click draws. I haven’t kept statistics of my Kit play, but I feel like this is fairly close. With this behaviour, you’re only getting baby bucks on 51.6% of the 9.5 cards, which comes out as 4.9 credits on average. IMO this is still pretty good value, but you might be better off with a Personal Workshop instead.

Last example I’ll calculate is 3 Diesels & 2 Quality Times, and spending two regular clicks on drawing cards every turn. With this kind of behaviour, you’re only netting baby bucks from 26.25% of your total draws, which cuts down the benefit of a second Baby down to 2.49 credits. Now, if you also play Levy and see the second Baby again, the value it provided gets halved.

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So, my main objection to including 2 Baby is that the second one is a dead draw.

In your analysis, you assume that the 2-baby deck draws all the way to the second one, but you don’t penalize it a (fractional) click for drawing the second one. I think this probably overvalues playing 2 Baby, but not by all that much.

Regardless, I am satisfied by your calculations that the 2nd Baby is worth somewhere between 2.5 and 5 credits.

So the question becomes how much is personal workshop worth? In CrushU’s list above (just to use an example) there are 15 targets as you don’t care about 0 cost programs or the 2nd and 3rd copies of refractor. Total cost of these target is 27 so the max value you can get from your personal workshop is 27 credits.

Assume that you’ll go through half your deck before seeing the workshop, that’s an impressive 13 credits of value assuming you never hurry anything on it. I don’t think completely realistic as there’s times when you need to install stuff right away and times when you’ll hit a dry spell and not have anything ticking down. That probably happens more often than you think because while there may be 27 credits of value in your deck, there are 45 cards which means you have an expected value of 0.6 per card. Assuming you draw 1 card a turn on average, that means that your personal workshop is going to be doing nothing for you %40 of the time. According to octgn data, the average game is around 15 rounds (which seems low) which means you’re probably only going to get $12 out of it if you see it in your opening hand and less if you draw it later.

I suspect that if you are running RDI and a non-Inti Barrier breaker, then Personal Workshop becomes worth it? Thank god PW only costs 1 credit to install.

Side benefit of Baby that I’m pleasantly surprised by: Since most of the deck requires 1-2 credits to install, it’s very easy to Draw (BabyBuck) and then Install the same turn.

Thinking about it more, PW+Baby seems like a good package for Kit; either one is good, but the second one of each is worse than the first of the other. I wonder if there’s more cards like this…? Or even, could this logic hold if ported over to Kate?

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There’s another consideration regarding Personal Workshop that seems very difficult (if not impossible) to quantify numerically: the tactical value of having, say, R&D Interface hosted and being able to install it mid-run to get extra accesses.

It seems like if you run Quality Time (and possibly if you run Levy), the second Visage is probably more valuable as a Workshop. If you’ve only got Diesels and you rely on clicks to draw, you probably want to see Visage earlier and so you should bring a second baby. Also, I suppose, if you’re doing stuff with cheap programs like Cyber-Cypher, or Inti instead of Lady, Workshop is likely not as good.

I think this is true of almost all of the unique, conditional 1-c drip cards. Certain cards, like Kati, Magnum Opus, Procon, etc. yield more than 1 c a turn, which improves the yield of additional copies. But I think that Personal Workshop, Aesop’s Pawnshop (if you find yourself juggling MU a lot, 1 copy can be surprisingly good), and Baby all fit more or less this role in Kit.

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Published my Worlds Kit decklist:

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