I mostly play HB or Jinteknas corp, and am trying to figure out the best agenda scoring composition to hit 7 points. NBN is usually 2-2-2-1 with Astros/beagles and a breaking news. I’ve tried going 2-2-2-0 with the zero being sleeper agents, but the most successful I’ve had is 2-2-3. I hate scoring out fatty 5/3s as my last agenda, simply because of how long they have to sit there. How do you guys generally try to score?
This is a really weird question, and it depends a lot on your overall deck strategy, but:
for HB 2-2-3 is fine, but don’t count out 2-2-2-2. 2x two pointers a lot of times is easier to score than 1 three pointer.
for Jinteki, it really depends on if you are planning to score out at all- some PE decks can easily go 1-1-1-1-1-1-1 while playing for a flatline, while a mushin-no-shin based deck might plan on 3-3-1.
Another side note, don’t get caught up trying to score in the “right” order. a lot of times the best window for a 3 pointer is relatively early in the game.
You’ve pretty much nailed it.
Fast Advance decks tend to want to score 2-2-2-1 or 2-2-2-2 (or 2-2-2-0 with Sleepers). The exception is Cerebral Imaging, which can do 2-2-3 because of the ability to combo FA a 5/3 with Efficiency Committee and Shipments.
Glacier decks such as HB and RP usually want to play some 3-pointers and some 2-pointers so they can score 2-2-3, (3 pointers are harder to score but save deck space).
Flatline decks are usually the weirder ones. Jinteki PE and Weyland can score any weird combination of 1, 2, and 3 pointers, as their agendas tend to complement a kill strategy, (House of Knives, Fetal AI, Philotic Entanglement, Project Atlas, The Cleaners, Posted Bounty). In those decks, you don’t just score the agendas for the points, but because their abilities tend to help your kill. If at any point you get close to 7 points or the runner is for whatever reason careful or protected from your kill, you sort of have to decide based on the agendas left in your deck and how many points you have how to score out, or threaten to score out, the rest of the game.
I was just asking @Nordrunner about agenda mix after I saw him score out 3-3-3 in the losers’ bracket finals of the Stimhack league, which is something I’ve never had to do in a game and would like to avoid. He ran 4x3pt in that HB glacier deck, whereas my current Red Coats list has 2x3pt and the rest 2pt, hoping to score 2-3-2 or 2-2-3 (ideally with the first one being an ABT). I’ve run 3x3pt in RP, but The Future Perfect protects itself, so that’s very different. I sometimes even run Fetal in RP when people in my meta seem complacent about net damage in RP.
But in general, the idea of 4+ non-Future Perfect 3pt agendas in my deck, especially without Punitives to punish early steals, makes me pretty nervous. Maybe I should try it, though. I did run 4x 4/4 Tycho Extension as my only agendas in a flatline build in ONR, but that was very different.
I don’t mind four 2-pointers and four 3-pointers in HB Glacier. 7x2 and 2x3 works fine as well, but really all you’re doing is making the runner have to steal 4 agendas rather than 3 slightly more of the time in exchange for giving up a non-agenda deck slot. One big benefit you get is playing 3 NAPD, so it could very well be worth it, but I think that it’s more preference than anything. I like the 7x2 2x3 better in Weyland Glacier, where you can search up the 3-pointer with Atlas, as there are plenty of times where I am playing 7x2 2x3 Glacier and don’t have the 3-pointer I need to score out the game to exactly 7. I think RP actually handles this better than any other ID because of how effectively it shuts out the runner going late, making it pretty irrelevant a lot of the time if you need to score 4 agendas rather than 3 to win, (but at the same time TFP is just so good that you might as well play three of them, especially when you consider the time limits in tournaments).
Back at the start of the first league I played a bioroid efficiency HB glacier with only 2 3-pointers, but ended up abandoning it because it ended up shi-kyuing itself (needing 4 scores to win) just as often as the other way around, whenever the runner managed to find a 5/3 on a random early access. Atlas fixes that problem in blue sun.
Nord’s performance in the loser’s bracket shows that 4 5/3s is better in HB. In both games he got one rushed out early, which puts huge pressure on the runner because every adonis in the scoring remote could be a beta test.
Pretty much echo what’s been said. I can comment specifically on my deck as to why I play 4 3ptrs. As mentioned rushing an early 3 pointer is a tremendous help to force the runner to run my scoring remote the rest of the game. I have recently gone away from a few bioroid and am using more hard ETR Ice like Ice Wall. It has given me more opportunities to rush these 3 pointers early.
I actually don’t run NAPD, I’m on 3x ABT, 3x Vitruvius and one 4/2 (currently EffCom). But I go for Vitruvius counters when I can get them, so I’m effectively running more 4/2s or 5/2s that can be scored as 3/2s if needed. Having six 3/2s is nice for the scenario where I have to score 4 agendas, but the drawback of my spread is that none of the agendas protect themselves.
I’ve never been good at rushing, so maybe I need to experiment with a deck that has more 5/3s in it and try to get my head around rush scenarios. Starting with a 5/3 score, like Nord did in that semi match, seems strong.
you’ve received some good replies from really good players. If you’re strictly speaking of scoring your agenda’s as you’ve typed then I believe the answer reveals itself with your method of scoring, which is typically servers with lots of ICE or fast advancing.
If you’re fast-advancing then I suppose I would start with all 2’s and replace the domestic sleepers with a couple 1 pointers as NBN does. I’m guessing you’re using ash and/or something else to help? In this way a couple 1-pointers maintain an ASH or jackson disguise as well as helping you to work in a card or two. If the 1’s aren’t doing it for you then you could try another 2 but it’ll end up being a 4 counter-one which mean it’ll have a “tell”. That can be ok if you have other cards in the deck that emulate that tell but you have to be predisposed in that direction and adding those “tells” sometimes chew up deckspace pretty quick.
If you’re going with the glacier approach just do as Raja and Nordrunner illustrate. they’re very knowledgeable and successful at that.
For me domestic sleepers is good when you’re layering it with another purpose, the only caveat being you’re running all 3-pointers and you’re looking for a way to capitalize on having two of those scored.
I’ve tried sleepers in HBFA (no archer). Looks good on paper, but gila hands is just better.
I really only like sleepers under one of two circumstances. Either you’re playing Archers, or you’re playing some kind of weird Midseasons build (most likely out of Custom Biotics). I have actually had some success with Midseasons + Psycho out of CB, as a psychoed vitruvius means that you can just psycho out every other agenda pretty much without fail for the rest of the game, but I digress.
3 sleepers, 1 the board, 2 shi-kyu, 2 executive boot camp. Then ask Lukas a confusingly-worded question on twitter that makes him accidentally rule than when the runner has -7 agenda points the corp wins.
fwiw, my most successful deck tends to score 3-3-0
Mind me asking what your 3 pointers are?
Why not? That would be a refreshing alternate win condition. Hilarious.
the rest of your deck is all 1-pointers so they can’t actually get ahead.
Not sure what you’re getting at here
3x the Fragments, 3x Pri Req, 1x Wotan (2x sleepers).