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ANRPC Stands for Something New


#1

The ANRPC has some announcements for 2016, including a change in name. For full details please visit: www.anrplayerscircuit.com.


#2

Great press release, nice job man.


#3

ANRPC - A place for friends.

Fully approve everything. :3


#4

Man, now I have to create a new twitch account…


#5

how to incorporate a player ranking system?

What did you have in mind? Is something existing like Elo not enough?


#6

I’m interested in what is involved in organizing a circuit, but could not find any info on the site. Is there a thread or site that has this info?


#7

Anybody Not Running Professional Contacts?


#8

#TeamNoCo


#9

Unfortunately, my name change to ANR Private Club was rejected.


#10

Angry Nerds Ruin Perfect Cardgame


#11

Elo works well enough for chess but it wouldn’t work as well for netrunner due to the inherent randomness in the game. The problem is that a worse player will win more often against a better player due to pure randomness than elo expects. When this happens it will give the worse player more points then they deserve and take away more points from the higher ranked player. Also the asymmetry would be a problem because the win rates for the different sides won’t be even for a given time. Lastly there won’t be enough games to really get good rankings established.

Al that said, it’s better than nothing :smile:


#12

elo doesn’t care about inherent ability, elo only cares about results. A worse player won’t win more often against a better player than elo expects because all elo knows is the statistics about how different players do.


#13

Yes, a friend wrote up a primer on Elo and how it relates to Magic. It’s not clear that chess is intrinsically better-suited to Elo than Netrunner is.

The lack of games to get a good rating is probably an issue though.


#14

It looks pretty awesome, but is there a link on the ANRPC website that gives a basic description of what it is, how it works, etc. Closest thing I could find is by clicking on the individual circuits.

IG


#15

It’s worth noting that chess is also imbalanced, about 55 - 45 at high level.


#16

Feel free to message myself or Spags. We’ll be more than happy to chat with you on the details.


#17

The thing about ratings systems is that, assuming game results are stored in a sensible digital format, they should be pretty straightforward to replace. If an Elo-based system is set up and then in a year it looked like Glicko or something some Netrunner-playing math wiz came up with would be better, it’s possible to just run the new algorithm on the historical data and announce that everyone’s ratings have been converted to the new system. Changing the system every year would be a bad idea, obviously, but it’s definitely possible to recover if the first choice turns out to have problems.

The trickier bits to decide, I think, are things like: what games should affect ratings? How will game results be reported? How will disputed results be handled? How will players be tracked to make sure results are associated with the right player? If results are published online under people’s real names, how will players who do not want their real name published be handled?

Here are some possible answers to the above, for people to argue with: count games from any non-online tournament run according to current tournament rules where the TO signs up to submit ratings; the TO submits ratings; require that paper match slips be used, and require the TO to keep them for a week in case of disputes; maybe some kind of player number, I guess; allow people to request their name be hidden when they sign up for a player number.


#18

@Absotively has some great points about it not mattering at first what system ANRPC uses. The key is figuring out how and where to store game results.

Probably what makes most sense is to give any player that goes to an ANRPC event an ID. The use their ID at every ANRPC event. Individual games are recorded (i.e 2 games per swiss round) that probably only needs to contain ID X and ID Y played and ID X won/tied and it was a standard game (may want to have different system or exclude team format, etc.). Then, run whatever ranking system you want. Eventually you’ll have enough relevant data to have a true ranking. You probably could fold the Stimhack League games into the same system, since they’re a sponsor.

I believe this is the basic form of how Magic does their DCI thing, but it’s been so long since I played at a sanctioned tournament for Magic.

I think there were good ideas about allowing players control over how their info is displayed. It’s probably not a good idea to try to fold in the data from any FFG event.


#19

I like the idea of combining live events with stuff like SHL to just have one big set of data. Data is really the crux here you can’t just theory craft the perfect ranking system (it’s a highly non trivial issue) I think the best thing to do is start with something standard such as ELO then maybe in a year of so there will be enough data to do some serious statistical analysis of different ranking systems (which is why it’s important to have records of who played who etc) in theory you’d want to pick a ranking system that minimises error in predicting big tournament results.

Personally I would love to be a part of this but I definitely don’t have the time to work on it by myself for a few months at least but if other people are happy to be involved I can contritube to a team effort.


#20

To me, some kind of points/ranking/whatever system being initiated is a soft 2016 goal of mine for the ANRPC. It provides continuity, sparks banter and scoreboard watching, and fills a gap OP will never fill.

If people would like to start an ANRPC Data Team, I’d love. Personally, I have neither the time nor skill set for it.