Your math is a bit… naive. On release BWBI was a terrible ID. No one is arguing that. But I share the belief that it is now on par with most IDs (as others have mentioned above)
The point is not to gain 1 credit for 1 click a turn, the point is: what does that click really do for you? Space ice? 1 click = 3 credits, not 1. Fire/Ice wall? 1 click = +1 cost to the runner EACH time he runs that server.
Would you like to play an ID that reads: Once per turn, either:
Click: chose a server. The runner must spend an extra credit each time he runs on that server for the remainder of the game, or
Click: gain 3 credits, only used to rez ice
I would!
Obviously the value for your ID’s ability is not always guaranteed to be optimal, but that’s the general idea. Try one of the above listed decks and see for yourself.
Not trying to convince you that the ID is good, but that’s not a really accurate description, unless your credits are free of clicks. It’s 1 click to replace two actions that include getting a credit and then putting it on ice. At the most basic level, it’s 1 click for 2 clicks worth of actions which we know is a huge advantage if this were given without restrictions. It’s the fact that you don’t need any economy cards to make this work that makes it better than it seems to be.
Of course, the other key difference is that there’s actually ice that’s really worth advancing now compared to before.
you only gain the 3 off space ice if they run it, same goes for the advanced ice/fire wall, and every other corp can take that same action for the cost of 1 credit. ETF’s ability is good because the credit you gain is flexible, BWBI is very constrained with what it can do with it, and it can all get knocked over by a david and a silverware, or parasite + datasucker. Very few of the advanceable ice is worth running on its own merits actually (wormhole, fire wall, ice wall, orion*, shadow if punishing tags), so you’re spending a lot of clicks and deckslots into something that doesn’t win you the game. If you get 15 turns to durdle and set up huge servers, sure, that’s great, but you don’t have that kind of time against 90% of runner decks, and even then, they have very little pressure because you’re just playing with your ice, so they probably have a full rig and a bunch of high impact run events.
Have you guys tried using Simone Diego on your lists? Considering BBWI operates on very low creds, she can save quite some money over the course of a game.
I do wish the 1 Credit was for Advancing Cards and not Ice. It would make the Install-Adv-Adv and Adv-Adv-Adv-Score turns a little better. Gives your ability more power into the late game when you’re not advancing Ice as much.
I did have a 14 advanced Tyrant yesterday though. That was enjoyable. Mostly it was from Constellation protocol moving the tokens off of Space Ice.
That seems like a reasonable ID to me. I personally think that BWBI promotes bad durdley play. It’s kind of the anti-Gabe. I think all these decks are better in BS or maybe BABW. Perhaps with Root support. I also think they’re a way away from top tier.
It’s not really a ruling, it’s just how the card reads. Tyrant and Woodcutter specifically say they can’t be advanced while unrezzed, so anything that relies on them being advanceable doesn’t work while unrezzed. This is why I still think they work best in Tennin, which has (as far as I know) the only ability to place advancement counters without the card actually being an advanceable card. This is why it can do weird stuff like advance your opponent’s console, advance an identity card, and so on.
[quote=“licoricemaniac, post:41, topic:2891”]
Space ice? 1 click = 3 credits, not 1[/quote]
Not exactly, it’s three credits (sorta) for a very specific piece of ice. That’s why Wormhole is generally regarded the highest, because 9 credits for 7 str is not bad on its own. Asteroid Belt for 9 isn’t worth it. Situationally, Nebula can be worth it, but I’d say overall it’s overpriced as well.
Anyways, you can’t just one for one the credit value, because you aren’t getting credits, you are getting something that credits could pay for. So if you aren’t getting at least full value from that credit, then you are getting less than a credit’s worth.
I kind of like Space Ice more in Blue Sun for that reason, because you can rez for full price and get your money back. You can’t advance them and get full price, but they’re all reasonable with three counters and you’re going to want to maintain board control eventually anyways.
I was definitely in the “space ice is better in blue sun camp” but a dozen games last night and I have to say… I love BWBI.
It is definitely a durdlers dream (hmm - new deck name) - but man have I been sick of Account Siphon defining the meta for the last gazillion years.
I also love how all the corps play so damn differently.
zero: As for the “three credits (sorta) for a very specific piece of ice”. Thats true only if you’re not playing commercialization, trick of light, constellation protocol etc. In which case those advancement tokens are leveraged.
I don’t think it really makes a difference. You can do all those things, sure, but none of those makes a 9 credit 6 strength barrier efficient.
If you want to go down the rabbit hole of calculating an actual value considering all available synergy, that’s fine. But that’s not simply the three credit cost reduction. I suppose it could be more, but I have a feeling that its less.
But thats not true. With blue sun, moving each token is worth 6 credits. 3 credits to reduce the rez cost of the new ice,
3 credits to increase the rez cost for the old one (and score cr when you move to hand)
It all hinges on the definition of “advanceable.” I always took it to mean “has the capacity to be advanced” and not “is a legal advancement target” or w/e
On Constellation Protocol it reads “you may move an advancement token from an installed piece of ice to an installed piece of ice that can be advanced”.
On Tennin it reads “you may place 1 advancement token on a card if…”
Can an unrez Tyrant or Woodcutter be advanced ? No. Are they cards ? Yes.