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But seriously, what beats Moon?


#1

Various versions of ETF Moon are reaching max refinement. On Slack, some of the top players - a group that does not include me by a very long shot - say the only reliable chance against a refined Moon in the hands a good player is to pack hate.

So this raises the obvious question: What is required to have a shot vs Moon right now?


#2

Rumor mill.


#3

Account Siphon plus Magic.


#4

I’m not sure Magic will help that much.


#5

Account siphon, apocalypse, rumor mill, hacktivist meeting and/or Whizzard are the the main counters. Moons won neither US Nationals nor Euros, so obviously the counters are working. The lower tables of Nats were chock full of Moons.


#6

Clot lock shaper with Astrolabe works well


#7

Yeah I was going to say the Faust + LVD Hayley decks seem pretty good against it.


#8

Joke answer


#9

I’ve also beat Moon with LeeMaw. Let them draw all their agendas, then Gang Sign them out of their hand. Just have to kill the Lakshmi and/or have Film Critics. They run so few ice you can often bounce their central defenses back to hand, and a key Sneakdoor at the right moment can be rough.


#10

That’s what I did. they give up purging when you still have a Clot in play 5 turns later with a purge every turn.


#11

Gang Signs Leela is ice cold to those kind of decks.


#12

But that’s a Corp card! :frowning:


#13

It feels so terrible playing Critic in Leela though and turning off your own ability. It’s frustrating that you almost have to have it to stand a chance though and it’s only going to get worse when Obokata Protocol becomes legal.


#14

Bad Cards Whiz was the UK deck designed to beat Moons at Euros: https://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/43213/bad-cards-whizz-euros

Disclaimer: I haven’t played with or against it but I can see what card choices are strong against Moons. 3x Rumor Mill, mostly quick event-based draw (adding Making an Entrance sets it apart from other Anarch lists), John Masanori in particular is good against asset spam since it lets you keep drawing while controlling assets.

I think Imp deserves more of a look. It serves a dual Film Critic (Imp agenda you can’t steal) / asset control role. Imping Friends is like trashing 2 assets with one click.

For non-Anarchs, I think the Lock Hayley has decent play. The combo Ayla that won US nats was designed specifically to beat Moons. Timmy’s build of DLR Andy was good against Moons.

I’ve tried Desperado Skulljack Valencia with Johnny Mas. It was pretty sweet. Still would not recommend though :slight_smile:


#15

I am running Andy good stuff with double medium and Rebirth, and of course tons of money. Generally gets it done v moon unless very unlucky


#16

The key to beat Moon decks is not to be compressed. It’s a deck that takes away your clicks more than your credits as you need to kill three facedown cards on sight:

a) Estelle Moon
b) Clone Suffrage Movement
c) Advanced Assembly Lines (Because it allows b to be played)

This is why Whizzard struggles: He has to check 1-2 remotes per turn, possibly under ELP and all he has as an advantage is saving on the cost of trashing cards costed 2 and 1. He also runs into a couple other problems:

a) No easy way to get past Fairchild 3.0
b) No HQ pressure
c) No Film Critic

This is why I think Criminal (Aeneas Informant+Desperado, Legwork, Siphon, Sneakdoor Beta) and Shaper (Clot, Astrolabe, Beth for ELP, HQ pressure of your choice) are better suited to beat Moon.

Moon sometimes gets stupid draws and just wins on turn 6, but most of the time it’s very beatable if you play it right and have the right tools.


#17

This would explain why Siphon Whizz appears to be the Whizzard flavor most favored.