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Chronos Protocol - You don't need that card do you?


#21

I’ll try this. sbliminal is synergetic since they will be spending turns drawing to compensate for the programs you trashed, or they will avoid running to prevent EMP

Grail not so bad with the assumption that you will be targeting their ability to spam parasite.

I am torn between therse three ways to keep trashed programs/recursion from returning to the game:

  1. Blacklist, but either you lack the economy (if you want enough ice to support 2 remotes) or you like the ice count (with 10ish econ events) for 2 solid remotes.
  2. Targeted Marketing: This is a soft measure, the runner will probably let you have 10 credits to play a key piece if he must, plus all the usual weaknesses of any current.
  3. Chronos Project: probably 2x, but that’s useless early game and it can be stolen, and with HOK that’s a lot of 3/1 agendas. On the plus side, influence free, and bonus points for style (Chronos all the way)

#22

I tried blacklist and was not entirealy sold on it. Perhaps its better out of the grail suite though.


#23

I converted my Power Shutdown-Blacklist PE into Chronos Protocol, basically just added Neural EMPs and switched Snare! to Shock!. I’ve never been convinced of grail’s power and the fact that it’s kind of fallen out of the meta (at least mine) indicates it didn’t work out too well. Specifically, the suite is so vulnerable to Parasite. Even if you damage Parasite out of hand, decks usually run Clone Chip too so you’re just making it available to the runner in real time. It’s also crazy to me seeing these lists with 0 or 1x Lotus Field when it’s your best in-faction ETR. Still, I want to give the grail lists a try, curious to see if they work better.


Shutdown Protocol

Chronos Protocol: Selective Mind-mapping (The Universe of Tomorrow)

Agenda (10)

Asset (7)

Upgrade (2)

Operation (13)

Barrier (4)

Code Gate (7)

Sentry (6)

15 influence spent (max 15)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to The Universe of Tomorrow


I don’t think this list is even close to optimal but it’s been very strong in the few games I’ve played. It might need more operation econ and a reduction in program-trashing sentries. Cortex Lock is brilliant, though—the disadvantage that it normally gets turned off in the late game disappears when you can consistently trash so much of the runner’s rig. The Shock!-Crick-Power Shutdown synergy is pretty amazing as well.


#24

I would say to pick archer or ichi and go with one. Perhaps drop a grim and lotus field for some restructures. Lotusfield is great, I just dont think its worth three slots here.


#25

Trashing their decoder will make any code gate a problem, i agree lotus field due to the cost can safely be 2x include.

Id drop the archer too for a 2nd ichi and a grim for a restructure.

Finally, im never convinced about shocks and crick in the same deck, crick is normally enough of an archives threat iv found.

Sorry that all seems so critical, apart from those points i think the list is great! Its seems to me that youve out togther pretty much the most sensible power shutdown shell you can get.


#26

Shocks are for surprise net damage from R&D and HQ. That it also fires from archives is just gravy.


#27

I don’t think Shock! works the same way in CP as it does in other decks. That one net damage is really punishing, so hiding it in HQ and recycling them through R&D, even installing in the scoring remote to bait a run. All really viable uses of it instead of just automatically pitching into archives and forgetting about it


#28

I understand what net damage means in CP compared to other IDs. I tried shocks myself (my early attempts with proxying CP are in the untested deck thread and includes shocks, and houkasai grid for the same reason). Im still on the fence about the utility of shock compared to other things you can put in that deck slot.

My thinking with CP’s ability centers around the fact it fires only on the first net damage per turn, constantly needling for 1 (multiple times a turn that is) may seem to give you a lot of options, or seem to be the optimal approach to building for the ability, but id argue you would get more out of solidly landing 1 net a turn or at least threatening 1. Im not sure shock is the right card for that.

Im not immune to the idea that im wrong in thinking that, certainly with CP you can utilise shock in ways you cant with other IDs (like baiting for example). But in the terms of utility slots i think there are better cards. Compare it to houkasai - a rezzed houkasai grid early game is as good as ICE against a runner with key cards in there hand, they will wait until they have a rig up before running it as its not damage they can readily avoid (i am aware shock is functionally the same in that respect, but the pyschological factor of knowing houkasai is there compared to the chance of maybe hitting shock is what will deter a run, or at least has been in my experience).

Edit: reading back i see as well i only mentioned archives in my first post regarding shock, and compared it directly to crick, so its fair that people are pointing out the differences of shock in CP compared to shock on other IDs. My full thoughts on shock in this post though.


#29

I would try “my” usual synergy… Jacksons / Allele and Subliminal Messaging used here to bring back Neural EMP instead of ToLs in Tennin.

You run, you get a Neural, you don’t run, you bring back Subs that I can exchange with Allele for Neurals.

-edit- Added decklist for theory:

Hey, behind you !

Chronos Protocol: Selective Mind-mapping (The Universe of Tomorrow)

Agenda (9)

Asset (10)

Upgrade (2)

Operation (11)

Barrier (5)

Code Gate (6)

Sentry (5)

Multi (1)

  • 1x Orion (Order and Chaos) •••

15 influence spent (max 15)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Data and Destiny

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.


#30

I agree that it would be nice to be able to land a net damage each and every turn, but we don’t have any good ways to do this, so some sort of needling is necessary. On the runners turn, we need some sort of run punishment, since we can’t dish out net damage any other way.

Shock has some good properties. It can fire from any conceivable server. It doesn’t need to be installed. And it is cheap.

Other options are:
Snare! (more expensive, doesn’t work in Archive)
Hokusai (must be installed)
Hostile infrastructure (might be fine in an asset spammer)
Shi.Kyū (just bet one, doesn’t work from R&D)
Fetal AI (gives the runner agenda points, nullified by film critic)
Psychic field (must be installed)
House of Knives (must be scored
ICE (breakable)

Btw, I would also argue that net damage in Chronos is more like a tiny knife than a needle. :smile:


#31

Archangel is very clever here, I think.


#32

@Epimer Archangel / Allele / Crick is three-card monte…
Where is the Queen of Hearts ? Where ? :slight_smile:


#33

Yeah those are some strong points. Fair enough, i think it probably warrants more testing then.

For reference below is the list i was testing back in june, proxying chronos. I admit it was limited sprint, but at the time i felt underwhelmed by shock. I think primarily as we didn’t have crick back then, so shock was there as an archives threat almost singularly, and worked well with power shutdown.

To be balanced, like i said im happy to be wrong here, ill #slottheshock again in a more updated list than this one and try it, focusing on different plays than just archives.

Chronos Shutdown 4th draft
Chronos Protocol: Selective Mind-mapping5 (The Universe of Tomorrow)

Agenda (10)
3x Fetal AI (Trace Amount)
3x House of Knives (Honor and Profit)
1x Philotic Entanglement (Honor and Profit)
3x The Future Perfect (Honor and Profit)

Asset (9)
1x Aggressive Secretary (Core Set) ••
2x Blacklist (Breaker Bay) ••
1x Executive Boot Camp (All That Remains) •
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves) •••
2x Shock! (True Colors)

Upgrade (2)
2x Hokusai Grid1 (Humanity’s Shadow)

Operation (13)
3x Celebrity Gift (Opening Moves)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
2x Neural EMP (Core Set)
2x Power Shutdown (Mala Tempora) ••••
2x Restructure (Second Thoughts)
1x Subliminal Messaging (Fear and Loathing)

Barrier (5)
2x Eli 1.0 (Future Proof) ••
2x Himitsu-Bako (Opening Moves)
1x Wraparound (Fear and Loathing) •

Code Gate (5)
1x Enigma (Core Set)
2x Lotus Field (Upstalk)
2x Yagura (Fear and Loathing)

Sentry (5)
2x Cortex Lock (The Valley)
1x Grim (Opening Moves)
1x Swordsman (Second Thoughts)
1x Tsurugi (True Colors)

Edit: also, i think EBC could be good here, for pulling shock into HQ and blacklist when you need it.


#34

I am thinking about building one of these to try out.

Is the basic shell of

Neural Emp
Power Shutdown
Blacklist
Net damage sources of choice (Hokusai Grid mainly coming to mind for me.)
Marcus Batty

And just play the remote game sound enough? Does it lack the impact you want? My work computer sucks a pile of nuts, so I cant try to build something up right now.


#35

I’m really surprised to see people ignoring Mental Health Clinic RE: Chronos Protocol. I know it’s cute and janky, but MHC means that runners won’t be discarding as many cards from hand, meaning you get to choose from 6+ cards when the Neural them. Seems useful for decks trying to execute surgical strikes.


#36

I wouldn’t include an MHC just because I’m so certain it’ll get trashed. Especially in the Blacklist versions which already need to protect two remotes (scoring server & Blacklist). Then again, perhaps a good way to bait a run when you’re holding Power Shutdown or Neural.

@king_mob not taken as harsh at all, always welcome the feedback. I’ve always been happy with both Crick and Shock!—even double deterrence from Archives isn’t valueless, as it means you can feel all the more safe stashing agendas there. And neither piece is just for Archives, Crick is so cheap that it’s great anywhere while others have pointed out the value of Shock!.

I have trouble steering away from Archer, which is just so brutal when it lands. Rushing an early HoK is already the gameplan and Archer just makes it pay off even after you’re out of cuts.


#37

Still a decent trade for 3 trash cost.


#38

Throw a Data Mine in front of it if you have one. Picking a card to trash plus 3 credits down seems like a pretty good trade.


#39

Surely the worst case is a four credit swing? You click to install, get a credit. They see it, click to run, pay three to trash.

That’s like a Hedge Fund that also costs the Runner a click.


#40

The worst case is Val comes in there with Desperado, Scrubber, Dirty Laundry and her bad pub and gets paid $4 to trash that. This is actually a thing that happens in my meta, and is why I’m not playing MHC.