As anyone whose played Shaper for a long time, I love pro-co. However, I’ve become convinced that baby is better than pro-co in every ID except Hayley (where’s its awesome). The fact I stare at pro-co after I get him turn 6+ and wonder whether I should install vs. see-baby-install-baby is enough for me.
So I had a random thought just now:
With Net-Ready Eyes being an in-faction thing now, why isn’t Kit + Yog.0 good? Stealth seems to be the immediate go-to, and I see why that is, but it feels like there’d be less slots devoted to supporting a primary breaker suite of Yog.0 + Net-Ready Eyes + Atman as backup. Turing is about the only thing that throws a wrench in that plan, but Datasucker never stopped being a good card, and Parasite plays well with Kit since you want to keep the number of ice on a server minimized, so…
What am I missing about this? Does it make sense to cut out the Stealth middleman and just go straight for NRE + Yog/Atman, slotting Lady as needed and maybe popping an influence for Mimic because why not?
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I think Kit with Yog-sucker + NRE can be strong but I think the upfront cost can be an issue (7 from an SMC) plus the need to find NRE or build some suckers before can handle 3+. Plus Yog + Suckers is at least 1/3rd of Kit’s influence which is a problem when trying to fit clot, etc. Yog-sucker-eyes It does have the advantage of providing much more synergy with parasites to keep killing that trouble ice.
Yog + Dinosaurus was the traditional kit build before stealth kit gained prominence but it suffered from setup time. You needed 10 before your combo came outline and by that time the game was usually already over. Yog + NRE is better but you still need more than stealth which only needs Ghost Runner + Refractor before you’re safe to face check anything.
Installing the Yog is a pain in the ass, and worrying about getting it trashed is also a pain in the ass.
I’ll eat a Refractor trash on a 2-deep server early.
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Both fine points, but then you need Ghost Runner, Lockpick, and Refractor, and then you’ve got Ghost Runner so you might as well take Dagger, and now Cloak, and suddenly there’s a dozen slots gone. Yog + NRE is 3-4. And once Yog’s installed, you chew through ice, minimizing your expenditures; with Refractor you’re still paying a cred per subroutine.
I guess I’ll just have to sleeve it up and see for myself.
I’ve wondered whether Yog +NRE + PersTouch might be an alternative to the Yogasaurus builds of yore. Maybe with a little Helpful AIs thrown in? That way you get the ability to build your rig around the 1 run per turn you want to be making for cheap, instead of having to combo in the Dino.
That said I’m starting to build a combo rig that’s almost as big as Stealth…
NRE and Film Critic were huge buffs to Yog Kit. You don’t even need Dino (or helpful AI or personal touch), just a single sucker and a parasite (and you don’t really even need the parasite, clot if you prefer). This in turn supports a more classical anarch rig with some ladies and a mimic backing up your Yog, and the consistency of a shaper to get it all out quick and care less about rig sniping. It becomes very streamlined and targeted like PPvP Kate, but you benefit from early aggression and central control through the sucker, which is Kit’s main strength. Heck there’s even a strong argument for Corroder as the fracter then because you have so much room for proper econ and high impact run cards.
NRE has pretty much killed stealth Kit in my mind. Opinions may vary TM XD
Starter Kit
Rielle “Kit” Peddler: Transhuman (Creation and Control)
Event (12)
3x Diesel (Core Set)
2x Dirty Laundry (Creation and Control)
1x Legwork (Honor and Profit) [color=#4169E1]••[/color]
3x Modded (Core Set)
3x Sure Gamble (Core Set)
Hardware (10)
3x Clone Chip (Creation and Control)
2x Dinosaurus (Cyber Exodus)
2x Net-Ready Eyes (Chrome City)
3x R&D Interface (Future Proof)
Resource (10)
3x Daily Casts (Creation and Control)
2x Film Critic (Old Hollywood)
2x Kati Jones (Humanity’s Shadow)
3x Professional Contacts (Creation and Control)
Icebreaker (7)
1x Atman (Creation and Control)
2x Cerberus “Lady” H1 (All That Remains)
1x Mimic (Core Set) [color=#FF4500]•[/color]
3x Yog.0 (Core Set) [color=#FF4500]•••[/color]
Program (6)
2x Datasucker (Core Set) [color=#FF4500]••[/color]
1x Parasite (Core Set) [color=#FF4500]••[/color]
3x Self-modifying Code (Creation and Control)
10 influence spent (max 10)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Old Hollywood
Decklist published on NetrunnerDB.
This is what I am thinking about using as a base. I haven’t played kit in a while but film critic lets you run with less money than ever before.
I personally would switch Professional Contacts with Symmetrical Visage; I prefer the lower up-front installation cost, and since my “ideal” turn goes “Draw, Run, (something), +Kati,” I don’t really feel like I’d be using Professional Contacts more than once or twice a turn anyway.
I think you have to #SlotTheClot or you’re going to have a bad time. You can probably drop a Yog to free influence, but I don’t know where the other point comes from. 
Thats true I will probably cut the a datasucker and a yog
While I’m not sure I agree with his point of view on knifed, I’m very much with Kore on this one; I really don’t buy Yog.0 and Dino and NRE. I’m finding code gates at the moment are small (yeah, Yog.0 blasts through) or they’re a Tollbooth, Wormhole or Little Engine. These all present a significant obstacle for Yogosaurus.
For that matter, how do you get through Little Engine? You need to rely on datasucker tokens at that point. Refractor and a single Ghost Runner or 2 Lockpicks or 2 Cloaks (or some combination thereof) can get you through that, it’s 7 creds and 2 cards less to install.
Isn’t the very benefit of Kit that she can apply pressure from the very first turn and eliminate the facecheck risk? A single stealth credit and you can facecheck anything up to Grim, and it’s cost you 2 creds (1 for refractor, then 1 for whatever you use for a stealth credit) to be able to do that. You can continue to pressure servers while you build the rest of your rig (clicking onto Kati, grabbing your other breakers, etc.).
What are you gaining here by using Yogosaurus? Well, obviously, the ability to break code gates lower than str 6 without paying. Many code gates are single sub, though of course you’re gaining more from that because you’re Kit. So, over a longer game, you could save quite a few creds.
But, because this requires 3 pieces to get it all up and running (plus, unless you’re running scavenge, you need to draw and install Dino before Yog.0), and a heavy investment (10 creds without paying tutor costs), you’re going to be running much slower. You’ll need a few turns and most of your early game money just to build your rig. At which point, you could argue that Kate could have just as good a rig, and will have saved as many creds as you through her ability (you could even port the Yogosaurus across to her and have 5 extra inf).
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I think if you’re going to Yog-Kit, it’s better to do NRE/Personal Touch rather than dinosaurus. Dinosaurus suffers from being both expensive and preventing you from playing Astrolabe which is a critical part of your NEH matchup.
I’d do something like 3x Yog, 1x Mimic, 2x Datasucker, 1x Parasite, 1x Clot for my influence and seriously think about including modded to help with the install cost of Yog. 1 Legwork isn’t going to give you enough HQ pressure especially without a way to tutor for it or recur it with Same Old Thing.
As for where I stand on the whole Yog vs Refractor, I think refractor is the superior breaker. The advantage of Yog is the reduced cost to run but Stealth already runs pretty cheap. If you have a 5 str/1 sub ice, Yog will break it for 0 with NRE/Datasucker support which is really good. But Stealth will also break for 0 with 2 Lockpick/Cloak and you have the ability to break up to str 8 if you encounter an archer or something. I never go poor running with Kit (except when there’s tollbooths out there), it’s always trashing cards that tax my economy so the additional efficiency of Yog isn’t as attractive as it might be. The advantage of Yog is not that Yog is that good but that you can run datasucker/mimic/parasite which is a straight better package then cloak/dagger. That’s the reason you’d go off stealth, not a fixed strength decoder.
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good feedback on both counts
Chalk me up for Refractor too. It’s not only high-strength ice that’s problematic for Y0g/sucker/NRE, CVS really hurts the reliability of Y0g-sucker; obviously, because there will come a point where archives can no longer provide sucker tokens when there’s a CVS in them, but also because it’s possible to get purged in the middle of a run. It won’t help you that the Archer you just ran into is a code gate, if your Y0g is stuck at str 4.
Refractor needs support cards, but so does Y0g, and Y0g is a lot more expensive as well as costing influence.
Why hasn’t there been discussion about Study Guide in Kit? It seems like most of the other decoders have been mentioned in this thread, but not that one. Susceptibility to program trashing and the loss of early aggression?
I’d imagine so given the expense. My local meta had a guy play Study Guide Kit for a week or 2 after Study Guide dropped. It wasn’t bad per se, just not great
I’ve been wanting to do some testing with Multithreader + SG. You probably need Stimhack to get it going and even then a single trash could mean a serious tempo loss but it’s something I’d like to try.
Well, especially now that many are running 2 of em. Agreed. But the parasuckers are inherently MUCH more consistent in Shaper thanks to SMC’s and cc’s, so you can get em online really fast. More so than hardware tutors or clogging up your deck with 3 Lockpicks and 3 Ghost Runners. Again IMO (opinions may vary). I guess I am running her in a much more aggro way than the stealth ideas. I’ve always bought into her ability giving a hugely strong early game. I guess the stealth approach is more controlly and remote locky.
Loss of Agression , Slow build up. you are looking at 9-10 credits to get going.
in the end , you pay through the nose for an expensive Torch. Most ice isn’t bigger than 4-5 strength. And you don’t want to pay another 10 credits when faceplanting into a curtain wall. After that , you are still paying per subroutine.
Maybe when Multithreader is out.
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