I’ve played this deck a couple of rounds and I hardly ever got a chance to use ITD. Neither did I feel I got the credits to rez 2 tollbooths AND other proper ICE(granted, I never got more than 1 turtleback early). So I’d skip the ITD plan all together and go for something nice with your influence, you are NBN goddammit, you have the full 15(12 for the rest of the factions). Another thing I found is you could get trouble closing games out, and fast track would be a great addition. Just my 2 cents
I am really surprised that you would value Turtle over Hedge, and Sweeps over Hedge too honestly… since the deck wants to go a bit slower… shouldn’t need the lower cost to play that Sweeps offers. Unless its for Andro mostly.
Im thinking that Subliminal Messaging might be good in this kinda deck. Have you tried that @gumOnShoe ?
Side note that I have been doing a Grail NEH with Ash’s and License Acquisition instead of BN… and its been awesome. More people need to try that Agenda.
I often play below 5 credits because I rarely need more than 4. Sweeps allows me to burst back up from almost nothing if I need to and when people are digging for answers its always as good as hedge fund and sometimes better. And against Andromeda, that accelerant is always good to see.
Subliminal messaging would be ok if there was any disincentive to running in this deck; but there isn’t. If a runner wants to run every turn, I’m not going to be able to even think about stopping them.
A single turtle rewards installing remotes by making them comparable to clicking for a credit. It’s ETF on crack. Two turtles turns an installation into a MOPUS click + a taxing/beneficiary asset. Three turtles is just never worry about money again. Hedge fund might get you 4 credits, if you can play it, if turtle doesn’t get you 4 credits or passively pad your economy while you’re doing what you want to do, you might be playing the deck wrong.
Otherwise, I continue to hear the comments on IT and while the deck is good enough that it maybe doesn’t need it, I can’t respond at this point with anything other than videos of play, which I plan to go for tonight, tomorrow morning and Sunday morning. I’ll have a stream up (with audio if I can find my mic) and we can figure out if I’m having a good old case of confirmation bias or if I’m finding windows others are missing.
At one turtle, you need to install 6 cards to make it break even with a Hedge fund (4 gain, plus turtle costs 2 to rez)
The number of cards in the deck you would want to install into a new server, while it does something productive is 20, maybe less depending if you want to protect the ITD and SanSan. So it needs to survive, and you need to install cards.
But you said you never need a lot of money, so its like… Im just not getting your logic.
I see the appeal, I get that it works, but Im curious if its doing as much as you think it is. I’ll have to build it on OCTGN and see how it goes.
If Turtle does that much, they kill it and your out money cards. If Turtles doesnt do that much, then Hedge is better. They stack, but then they get killed. And if they kill right away, its Pad campaign but easier to trash.
The thing about hedge fund is that the runner doesn’t have the option to lose 4 credits and a click to stop me from using it. There’s also the opportunity cost to the runner of running my face down cards. If they’re going to hunt for sansan or an agenda, they’re going to lose a click for every card I install face down. That really adds up over time, and if they’re trashing cards before I rez them, then I’m losing very little in the process. If they wait to trash until I’ve rezzed, they’re now losing twice the clicks it took me to install cards.
It’s a similar idea to click compression, which I hope to talk about while streaming. If the runner responds to every action I take, they are taking less actions to advance their strategy. If they respond to very few actions that I take, then eventually my board state will be extremely efficient and synergistic. Turtle is a card among many that helps enforce this plan and hedge fund as an operation simply doesn’t help.
Installing turtle will probably also draw me a card, so it’s closer to 5 installed cards to break even since it saves me a click on digging. There’s also the architect factor, which can help turtle pay itself back faster, and license acquisition which can similarly get you extra clicks/credits savings in conjunction with a turtle.
No need to build it. You can download the latest (49 card version!) here:
Bit simpler than that. I don’t know if I’d ever run little engine… Looks so good and bad at the same time. Great for the rush, bad if d4v1d is still everywhere. Midway deck? Idk
I’m going to give this a whirl I think. Couple questions. Maybe already asked but could perhaps use updated thoughts.
breaking news: Why? you have no tag punishment. You’re objective is to stay so busy that they get caught up in what you’re doing. Trying to get tags so you can remove resources takes away from that goal. You can’t fast-track one for that 7th point and probably still wouldn’t need to if you had fast track. those cards could be interns, fastrack, or something else that would be more relevant to your goal? License Acquisition serves as adequate archer feed.
sweeps vs. hedge fund? I get the entry-cost part of it but once they sniff out that you’re not scorching them (which only takes turtle-back + 1 other showing of influence) have you not experienced a redux of runner hand-size to counter your econ?
IT dept: I’m just curious on your updated thoughts on this card so far. To be honest I’m not certain what I would replace it with as I believe it would have to remain an asset or upgrade to keep the point of the deck consistent. I wonder if there wouldn’t be value in swapping out the 2 roto’s and replacing IT with eliza’s toyboxes as a method of fueling your tollbooths and archers. perhaps not enough ice for that but a thought .
Breaking News: Archer Fodder, Blowing Up Kati Jones, Blowing Up Other Problematic Resource^X? Can be done off of SanSan. Tags are punishment for the odd deck running rachel beckman too. It’s a good agenda and a good way to advance the game. But Archer is the main point of the card, probably. Getting from 6 to 7 without SanSan if necessary.
Sweeps isn’t very necessary, it’s good when its good and when its not you can make due. There are some runners who are really good at keeping only a few cards in their hand, which is fine with me. They have less options. Usually there will be a point where they draw up for something, but there have been a few games where card is kind of meh. The thing is, if I have 5 credits I typically don’t need sweeps, the rest of my economy will get me the money I need typically. It really is to get you off of 0 and back up when you’re ready to rez a tollbooth/sansan or immediately after a tollbooth/sansan.
IT ranges in usefulness from game to game. I’m hoping to capture some instances of it doing well. It obviously wins you games against anyone who doesn’t understand the card, making about 30% of your games easy among the general populace. But its either a tax or a lock in another 30-50% on top of that. Hadn’t given eliza’s much thought. it’s interesting, but announcing where you have an archer without any chance to pump it is usually the worst way to use archer…
Last post until streaming goes up. Have to eat dinner with wife, find mic and set up an account, but I’ll probably post here when I’m going live. I don’t have a mumble server, but if anyone does I’d be interested in conversing while playing. If not, I’ll just have some music in the background and reply via chat to anyone who wants to talk.
I told it to save, so hopefully these are up on twitch. I’ll look into that tomorrow, if they aren’t the streaming software OBS has a record option, so I’ll do that and youtube the next sessions at the worst.
-1 : agenda flood
-1 : Good player loss
—: OCTGN fail (probably a win)
+1: Regular win (I believe without much fanciness)
+2: Wins against a less than average player.
Live again
and down again
Lpoulter got me at match point with a shard… Lesson learned, jackson.
Today we got an IT lock out and an asset spam on tape. If you’re looking for crazy train games I played a few other decks to flush my buffer first, they’er in the last hour or so.