You can’t (legally) have multiple byes.
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I agree completely. This sort of behavior is completely reprehensible from a “top-level” player. If we truly want Netrunner to be taken seriously as a competitive game, this sort of behavior cannot be tolerated. I can sort of understand the position that everybody involved in the first incident knew Minh had won the Belgian event, but still the protocols should have been followed. Let’s look at it from a different perspective. What if you were in the US, and someone you had never seen before showed up at an event and got a bye without presenting a card. I think you would probably be upset at a blatant violation of the guidelines and the TO simply taking someone at their word… I know I would. While I don’t believe that he should have been given a Bye without presenting his card, I still feel that the first incident is primarily the Store TO’s fault for not observing protocol, and if the story had ended there, then everything would basically be all right.
However, the second Regional incident is another matter entirely.
Every single one of us knows that you must have your decklist for an FFG Premier-level event. There’s no excuse not to have one, even if you have to write it out. If you have to write it out, then you should show up early. I understand that things happen outside of our control, but by showing up late, without a list, and then using his Bye to give himself time to write his lists out when he knew what the probable penalty for late-arrival was, the optics of it are that Minh was attempting to parley his “celebrity” status into ignoring the standard procedures of the tournaments.
So now we come to the real issue at hand: the usage of the Store Championship Bye card. Minh knew that he had been granted a Bye at the first Regional. There wasn’t a clerical error or oversight. He was granted a bye - without presenting the evidence, I might add - that he was fully-aware of. By his own admission, he was late to one event, and knew the penalty for it. So what does he do? He whips out his Bye card and presents it to the judge, using something that he had no right to use twice, simply to save himself one loss at this event, which was obviously more important to him than personal integrity.
The first incident could be excused, but the presentation and use of the Bye card at a second event when he had already received a Bye somewhere else was willful, and it is this flagrant violation of protocol and lack of integrity which offends me, and should offend all of you.
He should receive no favoritism simply for being an internet “big name” or being your personal friend.
I personally feel that banning him from both Nationals and Worlds would be an appropriate punishment for the actions he took. I think it would be fitting if his tournament season ended right now.
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This would be DQ in tournaments I am organizing. I think allowing only one BYE wasn’t the best decision by FFG. There are many other things also I disagree with FFG organized play rules but organizers should try to follow them. Also as a TO I wouldn’t be very strict asking if player has won multiple BYEs because it is quite hard to enforce.
When I TO, I just state that if you’re late, you’ll lose any game that goes to time. If the first game goes to time, you’ll lose the second as well.
Seems fair to me - sometimes stuff happens, and we’re here to play Netrunner.
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Man. Just take the first round loss and be done with it. Jens got swept at our latest regional in round 1, and took 2nd. Fight your way back!
Poor form. If you’re late once, cool. Twice? Set the alarm.
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I couldn’t agree more with this post.
Willful cheating - let’s face it, that’s exactly what this was at both regionals - is something that TOs and the community need to have a 0 tolerance policy for.
Until FFG institutes a DCI-like system, where entrants can have their byes linked to an electronic database in FFG’s servers, stuff like this is bound to happen.
DQ from Nationals and Worlds seems fair for two instances of cheating.
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Just to clarify things: There is no irregularity at the regional in Brussels.
By not providing your Bye at the first Regionals, and then receiving a Bye anyway, you have just cheated. That’s also collusion between a player and tournament organizer.
By providing your Bye card at the second Regionals event, although you have already been granted a Bye at a prior Regional, you have just cheated.
That’s both Regionals.
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The belgian Netrunner community isn’t that big and the people who are willing to move around to play multiples tournament knows each other. We ( @mtgred, @nuTella, @Maelig and me) also play every weeks at the game store who organized the Brussels regional so I don’t think it’s something far-fetched to ask to the TO if he could use his bye if he can’t find it in time for the tournament especially since there were a lot of players who saw @mtgred not playing his first round and almost all of them will probably plays in the next couple of regionals in Belgium. We know @mtgred can sometime be an airhead and lose his stuffs (no offense mate) and before the second incident, there’s no reasons for us to think he would have used his bye somewhere else.
Speaking of cheating and collusion on the first regional is a bit exagerated here, I think.
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I really couldn’t find the bye card. There is nothing intentional here. Several other player confirmed to the TO I did win a Store Championship and everybody was ok about the bye. Please don’t speculate.
I don’t think it’s collusion, but it’s on @mtgred’s part to be honest. Did he not think this wouldn’t get out?
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Well, we couldn’t know 1 weeks before that he would use his bye card again in Netherland :x
I’m not trying to defend my friend here because I also think what he did in Leiden was totally inacceptable but we shouldn’t overreact and judge what happened in Brussels in the light of what happened in Leiden.
The only loser in this situation is @mtgred (and maybe the guy who missed a mat in Leiden because of him :p)
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Oh, sure, let’s quibble over that first occurence, which is of debatable legality, and completely ignore the second event, which was blatant dishonesty and cheating.
No one is ignoring it. I’m not sure what you’re trying to accomplish here, but no one has murdered anyone and I see little point of jumping down people’s throats the way you have been. Minh’s in here apologizing for his actions and everyone else is facing it head on.
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He’s admitted that he shouldn’t have done the 2nd one above. What is this thread achieving? Are you expecting FFG to read it and DQ him immediately? This is just unproductive mud slinging at this point
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The point of the story is: things like that do happen. A player, with a good reputation and no apparent reason to cheat, suddenly does something stupid. TOs must keep that in mind. @mtgred acted on impulse and regrets his action, but that could happen to anyone. So, tournament procedures are here to prevent this kind of events. Players must show up on time, must deliver their Bye cards, must submit a decklist, must let their opponent shuffle their decks, etc.
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No, FFG cares little for what occurs in the scene, but I’m sure they don’t want the 2nd place Worlds 2014 finisher milking their system, intentionally or no.
I have no problem with awareness. We’ve kicked people out of the Stimhack OCTGN leagues for similar offenses.
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Then perhaps he shouldn’t have done it in the first place. I’m with @spags here, did he not think people would find out that he cheated? It’s not mudslinging to point out his willful cheating.
Let me clarify: I can at least appreciate the fact that he admits what happened and is owning it. I’m simply trying to state that this is probably the first major instance of cheating in this game, and I think there should be a consequence for it.
Hey, we’re all super-competitive and want to win; it’s why we’re here. However, this is unnecessary.
It is a good test of FFG’s new ‘can’t win more than one SC bye’ rule. Basically, they have zero checks and balances. On the plus side, their new software has two SOS’s, so no more ties!
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Awareness has been established at this point. Anyone who truly wants something to be done about this should notify FFG staff through the proper channels. The policy issues are also probably a little too complicated for anyone’s opinion to actually change through debate on an internet forum.
I don’t have a problem with unproductive discussion if its not doing harm, but this is approaching the point where its doing more harm than good.
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