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Down with Kate

An ID is not either generic or specific, there’s a sliding scale of how generic an ID is. Even the most generic IDs are not 100% generic, they’re better in some decks than others. Calling Stronger Together a generic ID is absurd, it’s asking you to use a specific kind of ice. Gabe and Iain are fine, they’re both pushing you into different directions.

[quote=“Taurean, post:3, topic:5747, full:true”] and Data Dealer, seriously?
[/quote]

Did you not hear about the new Data Dealer meta to kill News Team? Card is OP. FFG, plz nerf.

6 Likes

NOTORIOUS B.A.G.

That’s a deck who works better in CT than in Kate. And almost tier 1. Almost.

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If Faerie and Clone Chip weren’t quite so strong and easily usable, Silhouette would be a very good ID, but these cards make it really easy to just deal with ice as it’s rezzed or shortly afterwards, rather than having to plan for it ahead of time.

I haven’t heard this reasoning before and competitively speaking I’ve never been a criminal player. Could you elaborate on this?

Hey’s saying there is no need to expose ice (and thus utility in picking Silhouette) because you can just safely* deal with whatever the ice is when rezzed. Nero may have the same problem - just used faerie in another id and not worry about sentries.

*if not repeatedly

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One of design goals with Criminal seems to have been have an efficient but not-necessarily repeatable answer to ice. I kinda think Andromeda/Datasucker/Anarch breakers/Desperado wasn’t entirely planned out (at its peak I think it was absurdly too powerful, and I think the designers had that point of view as well), and as a result we’re seeing the lack of good Criminal cards. It’s too easy to bring that back, stronger than ever.

With more problematic ice for that rig appearing, we may get to see some good Criminal stuff. Mumbad looks promising, but I’m seeing no game changers yet.

Once upon a time some asked the same question about Andromeda within Criminal :slight_smile:

Would rather have a Down with Noise thread. Fuck that guy, wish he were cycling out. Instead we just get more viruses printed.

I don’t mind playing against Kate all the time–it takes skill to win with her.

(Needs to be a card something like this come out to discourage all the Noise play:

$2 Operation

Gain $4 and put two cards from archives back into R&D. If you have a ____ card rezzed, gain $5 and put three cards into R&D instead.)

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You know what’s great against Prepaid Kate? Housekeeping. Noise and DLR hate it even more.

Of course, it generally means playing Weyland, which I realize isn’t very cool these days.

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Play a SOL Housekeeping list. Housekeeping all game is crippling agenst Shaper, and overall, it’s a great meta call, especially agenst Kate. Here is my list:
http://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/28710/an-actually-good-sol-deck

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The problem I always run into with Housekeeping is the same problem I always run into with basically all Corp currents: deck space. With a good agenda spread, enough money, enough ICE, it’s just hard to find room for goodies like currents. Even in my relatively successful Gagarin list I ended up going from 2x Paywall Implementation, 1x Interns, 2x Capital Investors to 2x Interns, 3x Launch Campaign, and I actually liked Paywall Implementation in that deck.

With Housekeeping, another problem is problem that you kind of want to run 3 of them, because the most impactful time to get it is ASAP. If the runner gets time to get set up a little, it’s going to do a lot less work the longer the game goes.

I do think that SOL isn’t a bad home for it, since NBN barely cares about influence of cards anyhow, plus it’ll stay out the whole game. Maybe there’s a 5-6 agenda punitive build out there that cares about it too, since they get more deck space than other decks. But for most decks, the problem is slots.

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@Circadia’s Chaos Theory Au-revoir deck was pretty strong at UK Nationals and wouldn’t be viable out of Kate.
I still don’t fully understand why Kit got hammered for influence, she would be playable at a regular 45/15.

I think Hayley and Professor potentially get better as the card pool grows and if/when power creep really sets in. Hayley’s ability has greater potential than Kate’s. Primarily, there are currently more opportunities to potentially trigger Hayley’s ability in the opponent’s turn than there are Kate’s. But also if runner economies get stronger then Kate’s ability becomes less relevant and Hayley’s gets stronger in comparison.

Similarly with the Professor - if there are ever enough programs to fully replace all of the basic deck functions (economy, draw, protection, primary game plan etc.) then the Professor gains some ground. If the corp meta ever becomes so diverse that you need a wide variety of tools to take on the field then the Prof is at an advantage. This could be helped by ICE/breaker design putting some interesting cards into the pool which don’t fit in the current mold. If other runners have to choose but the Prof doesn’t then there are gains to be made.

It’s a lot of ifs though…

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At a regular 45/15 I don’t see why anyone would anything but Kit! :smiley:

Funnily enough, I think The Professor has gotten worse over time. Like, significantly so. His speciality (Alwayas being able to get in) is pointless in the world of Caprice and all the cool programs (Faerie, Sneakdoor Beta, Medium) aren’t as powerful now as they used to be.

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Yeah, the problem with the professor is that his ID says “play a bunch of cool 1-of programs and go find them with SMC”. But the strength of Kate is that she uses SMC to play fewer programs than most ID’s, since she can tutor up her icebreakers and so doesn’t need doubles. The worst Kate hands are the one’s where you draw all of your programs. If the professor stuffs his deck full of cool 1-of’s, more and more of his hands are just full of random programs, and that’s just not a recipe for success.

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@gumOnShoe was playing Professor at the KoS event at World’s, I believe. Not sure if he’s posted his list anywhere.

It is not a list worth posting. It only won a single game on the day. Faust was the most successful thing in it, but the midgame was trope/windfall/monolith.

This is more reasonable, but risky given powershutdown etc:

http://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/25165/jankmaester-oni-mode-engaged

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Then start that thread? Go on, I give you permission.

Noise hasn’t been on-game since Team Sponsorship and CVS got really popular. I don’t know many people who have a problem with him these days.

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There’s two types of IDs:
IDs that play Netrunner, and IDs that don’t play Netrunner.

Example: IDs that Play Netrunner:
ETF, NEH, Blue Sun, BABW, PE/Chronos, Chaos Theory, Kate, Whizzard, Leela, Andromeda, Gabe, Valencia.

Example: IDs that don’t play Netrunner:
Noise, Professor, CI, RP (sorta), Sync (sorta), Iain, Geist. Exile.

The difference is that most IDs are just an improvement on general idea. I want to install cheaper, or I want more cards, or I want some recurring trash credits. These mean that in general, this ID could play any deck and do ‘OK’, even if it has some cards it especially wants (ie, Blackmails in Valencia).
In this capacity, there’s no point in time where Kate’s abilties are bad: You’re going to be installing cards through the game and spending money, may as well make em cheaper.

For the other IDs, they literally don’t do anything better than anyone else unless you build specifially for them. IE, Noise does need a reasonable number of Viruses. Geist needs trashy things to do anything. Even Exile, who is mostly normal, only gets value out of recursion. Ian only gets value out of ‘barely losing’.

When it comes to ‘Decks that Play Netrunner’, whatever benefits the ‘general conventional deck type most’ is going to tend to be dominant, as it will be relevant to more situations. A hypothetical Super-Hayley as mentioned before would unseat Kate easily, for the exact same reasons that Kate generally overshadows CT outside of the narrow deck archtypes that leverage CT’s more specific advantage (ie, the Aurevoir Deck)

Being bad at netrunner doesn’t mean you’re not playing the same game.

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Geist
Doesn’t play Netrunner

Ok.

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