Ideally your not hitting RND for single access. The proper play is medium dig for 1-2 cards in a turn, and use* Kim’s ability and trashing assets to expand that to 3-4 cards a turn.
*wrong word in this context, you dont control what you access
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I still disagree that we need to make digging for multiple cards with Medium any better. It wins the game anyway, we don’t need to be building to make that situation better once it happens.
This is the problem, when the pro’s of Kim’s ability come up the counter is that it’s too narrow. The thing is, Kim’s ability effects so many things that its thin to the point of seeming to be incredibly narrow. “All it does is make medium digs a bit better” would be, admittedly, shit. But he also, as you correctly pointed out, brings additional pressure to HQ. He has the ability to, dependent on board state, disrupt the corps economy. He can reduce their ability to rush/FA.
It depends. Its subtle, its not out right raw power like many ID’s, i cant argue with that, but dependent on quite a lot of things i think there is a real lever in his ability to shift the game to the runner. It depends.
Yeah I’m not trying to argue that his ability is garbage, as you point out it has several uses. Its just that Medium pressure isn’t much of a point in his favour.
Fun rules question that I think I know the answer to: Can Ed Quest Completed a Oversight AI to trash it? Would it do anything if he did?
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Medium pressure as iv read it throughout this thread has been the suggestion on how to maximise his ability, not the other way around. EDIT: although i can see re-reading my own posts the language i’ve used doesnt imply that. Basically if you want Kim to be good, access lots and multi access as much as possible. Medium is a great in faction tool for this.
If the OAI trick is possible then that is hilarious, although it would probably leave the host ICE rezzed as its (OAI) ability is no longer active.
Exactly why you SHOULDN’T build for HQ. Because your ability will be denied 9/10 times. You make the Corp poor by forcing them to protect r&d to not lose their econ.
It looks like two strikes against Kim:
If you occasionally trash a random econ card off the top of R&D it’s not going to affect the Corp’s economy that much, since it won’t happen that often, the Corp can click for credits anyway, and sometimes they’ll be happier drawing into their ice anyway.
If you are making deep medium digs, then Kim lets you dig a bit deeper, but at that point it’s win-more anyway.
Having the choice to be able to trash an econ card for r&d is always better than not having that choice, but the point is that it is not that much better.
So if you’re building kim you’re expecting to be trashing things like biotic labor and scorched earth. Which means you do want to get into hq. Building around r&d is like you’re planning for a meta that’s not suitable for Kim, in which case why are you running him?
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The thing is with access lots and multi access as much as possible you have a solid game plan for pretty much any id. The big question is, how much faster can you win the game? You will take a tempo loss, since his ability doesn’t help you to get to lots of (multi) access, it just improves once you are there and doesn’t necessarily help you to stay there.
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That shouldn’t work because Oversight AI stops being an operation when you play it and becomes a hosted condition counter, so it shouldn’t trigger Eddy.
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This perfectly sums up my current issues with the ID as well. I’m not trying to point out the problems to convince everyone that he sucks, I’m trying to identify the problems so that we can bring out his strengths.
I think it actually stops being a card, based on the ETF ruling about this and Bioroid Efficiency Research. So you can’t access it with QC.
Yea it says you’re hosting it as a condition counter, so it is no longer an operation card. putting the card on the ice is probably similar to how we put femme tokens on things, when, in fact, there is no mention of even marking the ice, you just name/choose it.
This is what I thought but I wasn’t sure and wanted to ask
Ed gets slightly more value from central accesses than other IDs. Central Accesses are pretty important in netrunner.
All my attempts at Ed revolve around setting up quickly with special order, plenty of breakers and probably desperado. Loads of ICE destruction (full sets of datasuckers, parasite, 1x knifed, spooned, 1x deja vu with a view to using it on ICE destruction). Others have gone for SMC that seems good. I haven’t seen a djinn build yet, but it keeps coming to mind as something worth trying.
Regarding the win-more accusations against powering up Medium. It makes Medium more of an emergency for the Corp to deal with. It’s not as if every time you get a medium on the table you win the game (with or without Kim).
Maybe Ed is the Anarch Gabe. He encourages good netrunner.
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Medium and reliable RnD access is already an emergency for the corp.
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Depends how expensive R&D access is.
If the runner can get in 1+ times a turn I’d call it a serious issue that the corp must deal with. Ed Kim’s ability is very rarely going to swing it one way or the other.
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You’re right, and you’re a better player than me, but Ed feels powerful when I play him. Maybe I should just stick my Ed deck in another Red ID and see what happens. I don’t think it goes quite as well. Ed was probably a bit better when NEH was everywhere and clot didn’t exist. Murdering Biotic Labour is a pretty good power.
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I dont think building only for RND pressure is the way forward personally, i think it can be helpful in getting Kim to the ops he wants to get to, again it depends on board state and at a given moment it may not be the correct play. I think he can hurt econ more by going for RND, as ops drawn into HQ dont stay there long, but then no more than another anarch with imp installed. Multi access on RND is an important part of a working Kim deck but as already has been pointed out Kim pressures HQ as well, and in fact needs to if we want to move his ability outside of just increasing RND pressure slightly, which at that point then yes there are ID’s doing it better.
You may well be right. Incubator might be a worthy include idk