Exploring a Stalling Metagame: Nasir Meidan StimShop by El-Ad David Amir

StimHack.com
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The cheap install cost off workshop is a huge point in favor of MO, but @IirionClaus is playing multiple Cybersolutions to fit it in a deck which has a lot of utility in its program suite that might, at any point, want to be able to keep a Cyber Cypher, a Gordian Blade, and an Imp in play at the same time. Granted, you can get out the mem chips cheaply also, but it’s a lot of card slots to make the engine work. Kati is just Kati. Cheap to begin with, no MU.

I am not sure which way is better, but this deck does a lot of work just making sure it can get Opus out and keep it out when it could be doing something else, like playing 3 Diesel.

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I think both directions have merit. I locked on MO because it lets me trash SanSan more easily (SanSan is super-popular nowadays, don’t know if you noticed ;-)). I’m sure a version with Kati could work just as well.

Now, how to make Anarch playable … I have a feeling that will be much more difficult.

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For sure. O&C gave a lot of new tools, but none immediately stand out as The Answer. Clot will make a difference, as well, but that’s a ways off.

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And Clot seems like a green card in the orange faction. laughing Maybe we should open another thread as this is off-topic. “How to solve Anarch post-O&C”.

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I’m a Kati fan in Nasir too. She often acts more like Stimhack than Magnum Opus, a secret Swiss bank account. If your economy is doing well get ~9 credits on her and leave them there, safe from Nasir, until needed.

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//Crazy rant deleted//
I’ll just say that having played Nasir decks that plan on relying on Kati for money late-game, it seems too easy for corps to find a window either
1)when you’re broke and can’t pop Kati for risk of losing it all on un-rezzed ice, or
2)right after you blow kati and get in, usually to spend all your money, and are then at least 2 full turns away from being able to afford even a relatively small run.

I don’t see how Kati can be a standalone econ for late-game nasir, as he cannot rely on “saving up for the big run”: you can’t force an ice rez unless you have the money to break the ICE behind it, and if you use Kati money to force the rez, you can’t use her money for the actual run after the rez.

Maybe it works better in meta where people don’t know how to play against Nasir? I do always seem to do better online than against people I’ve hammered on with Nasir for months… :smiley:

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I rarely comment on articles, but I thought I’d put this out there since there’s a lot of talk about Kati versions, and I have experience with that.

Here’s the version I’ve been playing.

Nasir Meidan: Cyber Explorer

Event (5)
3x Diesel
1x Test Run

Hardware (11)
3x Clone Chip
1x Dyson Mem Chip
2x Plascrete Carapace
3x R&D Interface
2x The Toolbox

Resource (13)
3x Armitage Codebusting
3x Ghost Runner
2x Kati Jones
2x Order of Sol
3x Personal Workshop

Icebreaker (8)
1x Atman
1x Cerberus “Lady” H1
1x Deus X
1x Femme Fatale
1x Inti
1x Mimic
1x Sharpshooter
1x ZU.13 Key Master

Program (9)
1x D4v1d
2x Datasucker
1x Imp
2x Parasite
3x Self-modifying Code

http://netrunnerdb.com/en/deck/view/174404

I get a little underwhelmed with Kati, but she’s such a consistent source of cash that it’s hard to deny that she’s decent burst economy for Nasir. I tend to install Kati only early-to-mid game and when I have a window to build up, and usually only against certain archetypes where I expect not to get tons of cash from ice. She’s slow against NEH unless you can effectively read the opponent slowing down and can take a turn to install and click her, but then you have to worry about Biotic-Breaking News → Trash. Not hard to play around it, but sometimes the corp will trash your Kati even if she’s empty. Not sure which version is “better”. I think there are lots of good variants of Nasir that perform similarly. The above deck is more aggressive than El-ad’s and slimmer, but it lacks the eternal cash-engine of Mopus. Kati’s worth experimenting with, for sure.

The way the deck plays is similar to @IirionClaus’s but it runs cheaper and requires less set-up. It’s very much like the deck @mediohxcore just posted, except it opts for Test Run instead of Scavenge (personal preference, I think: getting Femme out against Blue Sun is fine or reusing Lady/imp from the heap with some creative installing).

I’d been playing this deck for a long time (since way before this article came out) but there are some things I’ve done to the nrdb version, such as adding Lady. And I’ve considered hard cutting Femme altogether to add Utopia.

Code Siphon has also been pretty cool to try out in a version of this (with Magnum) so that you can effectively go SMC ->> code siphon -->> click credits -->> lose tag and end the turn with a breaker and magnum opus out (best case).

El-ad has seen this, and maybe a few others here have. I wrote an article on this deck, focusing on the progression of the Wyrm-Parasite archetype that a few of our local players have really embraced. Here’s that, if you’re interested.

–CJFM

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I’ve played a lot of ICE destruction Nasir, and use Kati. One problem I have experienced with the Kati/Workshop combo is Midseasons. Kati is great if you have been patiently squirrelling away the money and then are able to bring all the money off after you score in order to stave off a suspected Midseasons. But if you don’t get that nice Christmasland solution to work and get Midseasoned, then good luck the rest of the game when PW and Kati are your econ. Magnum would undoubtedly make you more resistant to the Midseasons autolose scenario.

Another complication with Kati in Nasir is the atomic nature of the money flow. You take none, or all. Since money is so fleeting in Nasir, when to grab the money off of Kati can be tricky. Frinstance, you just ran on Blue Sun, saw the dreaded Sea Source, and decide to take 15 credits off of Kati to prevent the tag attempt. Now what do you do? You either find something to spend all that dough on, or lose it on the next unrezzed piece of ICE.

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Incidentally, @cspieker is partially whom my article is about and who helped me develop my version.

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love that article on wyrm-destruction Nasir. A really in-depth look at an archetype I loved, tried and discarded without really fine-tuning

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I was actually thinking of posting about Nasir-Wyrm. Glad to see my ideas aren’t entirely crazy. Nice article!

Has Scrubbed been tested out for the Nasir-Wyrm variants? Scrubbed is 2 credits for -2 strength, so it’s cost effective relative to Wyrm, especially if it can stay on the board for a few turns and trigger a few Parasites. It’s also a decent Same Old Thing target. As a bonus, it addresses Enhanced Login Protocol (maybe Accounting if it gets played).

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I believe @cspieker has used it in a few versions. Influence is 2, which could be spent on parasite or something else. I think it’s a good card, and if you’ve had luck with it, let me know. I’ve not used it, personally.

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It seems alright. I’m running it over Datasucker because I don’t want to have to run and potentially get a bad trade off ice. It’s underpowered in comparison, but for the most part it does the job. I might end up needing the influence for other things.

A card that occurred to me last night for Nasir was Rook. +2/-2 credits seems rough for the Corp, and it makes formerly terrible ice, pretty decent exchanges. Pop-up Window goes from lose all credits, and the run, Corp gains 1 credit to Net 1 credit and the Corp loses 1 credit. The best part is that you play it unrezzed so it fits into setting up his ability rather than off of it.

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Problem is influence, again. I tried that when Nasir came out. It’s a fun trick and it can help. Makes you want to play Deep Red for 3 more influence, but I’d advise against that. Whip up a build and link us?

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I’ve tried scrubbed with wyrm extensively, in naisir. I absolutely loved it.
That said I think O & C changes the meta for wyrm.

Analysis with all the new virus programs - incubator, hivemind, vbg, progenitor, darwin
There are a LOT of different synergies - and a lot of variations.,

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I tried Scrubbed in my Nasyr deck, and it’s got what I considered a fatal flaw. Its ability is limited to the first ICE encountered. That can end up being quite a disadvantage. It gets turned off like Kit by outer ICE. That said, -2 str, is really good for Wyrm destruction purposes. If it didn’t cost the 2 inf, it would likely have a place.

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The problem with Rook (aside from the clumsy click to install, click to host) is Blue Sun. It increases the bounce-to-hand value of all ice on that server by 2.

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Managed to test against various NBN last night and my goodness, Scavenging lady for Eli’s and Imps for those assets. Makes a lot more sense to me now. Also, Opus to click through trashing those assets.

Back on the Scavenge horse. Cyber Cypher is definitely an improvement over Atman, and scavenging it to get into a Tollbooth, Lotus Field scoring remote was the best part of my night.

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And yet Rook on an Architect feels so good.

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(Except against Blue Sun)…

I think you can afford a few cards that are weak vs. Blue Sun in most runner decks though. It’s typically not a super strong corp deck that you need to excessively tech against. I’d wager that it was generally a pretty good matchup for Nasir too, especially a Nasir packing a D4v1d.