Would Order of Sol work on Sure Gamble (or similar)?
Crisium Grid rules question -
Say thereās a Crisium Grid on HQ and Iām Gabe with Datasucker, Desperado, and Sneakdoor Beta. If I make a successful Sneakdoor run, what happens? My guess is that I can get the Datasucker and Desperado triggers by resolving them before resolving the Sneakdoor trigger, but that I wonāt get Gabeās ID ability.
To be fair, while it has the potential to be meta-ruining, I donāt actually foresee CP being prevalent enough to do soā¦ though itās still going to be a total bloody nuisance in PE.
[quote=āMadmanMSU, post:23, topic:1807, full:trueā]
Would Order of Sol work on Sure Gamble (or similar)?
[/quote]Ooooh. Possibly. Not sure that totally makes it better, but between that and the Nasir combo it might be seeing some play, at least.
[quote=āCrunchums, post:24, topic:1807ā]
Say thereās a Crisium Grid on HQ and Iām Gabe with Datasucker, Desperado, and Sneakdoor Beta. If I make a successful Sneakdoor run, what happens? My guess is that I can get the Datasucker and Desperado triggers by resolving them before resolving the Sneakdoor trigger, but that I wonāt get Gabeās ID ability.
[/quote]That sounds about right, to me. Now Iām wondering what Dirty Laundry would do there ā you end up Crisiumād, but was the run successful before suddenly becoming not-so?
Well, if these spoilers are true this could be the biggest data pack to date so far!
Seems pretty solid. $X for X strength is the par rate of return for barriers, so very strong for a code gate. It will be strength 4 or 5 in most normal situations. Could be vulnerable to anarchs though if they decide to just trash HQ. Combos nicely with Elizaās toybox for CI - āok thatās three clicks for a 24 strength code gate at no cost - your turnā.
Hilariously, it turns Panic Button into Corporate Troubleshooter 
Kinda fun, very inkeeping with Japanese folklore: Kitsune.
I think it has potential but not on its own; and I donāt mean the ambushes it obviously needs in order to work. If the spoilers are true then Chronos Project and Crisium Grid are going to disrupt a lot of runner strategies and the meta could move away from Parasites recursion with Datasuckers, which is good for this card. Also, the more viable traps there are that call for an AI breaker, the more effective Swordsman becomes.
I like the premise of Wendigo but ultimately I think itās pretty useless unless Weyland get ways to make use of the advancement counters or manipulate them somehow in a paid ability window. It doesnāt end the run, so unless you have an ICE behind it so that the subroutine can lock out the appropriate breaker then it basically doesnāt do much. Iām not sure what the definition of āusingā a program is - would it prevent additional access from Nerve Agent or Medium? Needs clarification, but probably bad whatever it ends up meaning.
I think this is a pretty big card. It has tonnes of general utlity in shutting down a lot of popular Runner cards, but equally a lot of potential to build a deck around as well for Tennin or using Off the Grid.
GG Runner, thanks for playing.
Seems good for early game pressure - neutering about a third of the playable ICE at the moment. Could there be some synergy here with Tinkering and/or Paintbrush?
The biggest problem with BOX-E is Desperado. This is a perfectly fine console at a good price point with a reasonable ability, but itās competing for deck space with the best console in the game. Perhaps Corp strategies will develop in the near future to make the hand size more relevant, but right now itās staying in the folder.
This is interesting - probably a translation error but the text āWhen your turn begins, you may install a hosted card, lowering the play cost by 2ā doesnāt specify the card must be hosted on The Supplier. I havenāt thought if thereās a specific way to exploit that right now, but there could be.
Anyway, you have to get three full uses out of this guy for him to be better than just clicking for a credit and at that point heās on a par with Easy Mark. If he stays around long enough to get four uses then heās value. His usefulness will depend on how rife tagging is in your meta. If youāre playing a connection-heavy deck and can get an extra credit out of him with Calling in Favors then heās probably worthwhile.
Nevertheless it is the first reducer weāve seen for resources. Hard at Work anyone?
This is really hard to judge. Obvious synergy with Nasir, but I donāt have a feeling for how often one goes broke. Itās something I try to avoid as the Runner because kick-starting your economy from nothing is hard in general. Iāve not played Nasir at all yet so I donāt have much of an intuition as to how often he uses his ability in practice.
4 Likes
I think Crisium kills Dirty Laundry - its condition is checked after the run is completed, by which point it is neither successful nor unsuccessful. In the example above the discussion was with Sneakdoor, but you canāt combo Sneakdoor with an event so the run is never successful for the purposes of Dirty Laundry.
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Weāve had Spaces all of a week? Two? And Snow-Jax generally gets his stuff out a week or so before release? It feels like the release schedule is on steroids or something. I really think they could slow down the releases a bit. Yes, you can argue that more datapacks sooner shakes up the meta but if no-one has any time to experiment with the new datapacks before they come out, everyone is going to stick with the decks they know.
Got that out of the way 
. On to ill-informed initial impressionsā¦
First up, I really like some of the ICE in this set. IQ is nicely designed. Itās murder in CI - but only if you can rez it early. It gives HB Glacier a nice boost for its tendency to often have a full hand and, like the NEXT Ice, is a cheap early ICE that becomes more taxing later on. Wendigo is a great piece of ICE for uncorrodable decks and Tenin Lightening. It can also be an anti-medium tool on R&D in a pinch. Lancelot is the first playable Grail ICE - although I donāt think weāll see them in actual decks until Merlin comes out. The only one Iām not especially excited about is Kitsune. Forcing a Snare! is one thing, but it costs 2 extra credits and trashes itself.
On the asset/upgrade side we get Elizaās Toybox and Port Anson Grid - both of which attempt to boost under-represented deck types. Toybox is potentially pretty scary in a NEXT Design build stuffed full of massive ICE. Anson has a bit of potential - stick it in a server, install and advance a trap and it looks like ASH/Caprice. Crisium Grid and Manhunt both hit run-heavy Criminal and Anarch decks and might tame Security Testing a little. But I think Crisium is just too narrow I think and I doubt youāll see Manhunt over Targeted Marketing anywhere outside Making News (though Iād probably play it there).
Did I miss something? Shattered Remains. Tag nā Bag likes it but I think itās limited like all advancable traps. Thereās something else? Oh yeah, that Agenda thingy. I think something against recursion was inevitable at some point - King Parasite needs taming and programme destruction needs to do something against Shaper. Whether itās needed now is another matter. Corps are on top, itās not apparent that they need to be more in top. However, I donāt agree that this is a boost for Andy relative to other IDs - Andy loses a breaker to net damage then this gets scored and itās good night Vienna.
On the runner side, letās start with the good stuff.
I think Quetzal is a beast. You can go down the E3 route and give Tinkering a go but (as so often) I think it is a red herring. Letās see how the Corp defends against Siphon/Vamp spam when the runner can walk through half their early game ICE without even playing a card.
Hades Shard has one use - Noise - where itās really good, but slightly unsatisfying. Donāt get me wrong, I only play Anarch and I love that Noise is suddenly a threat again. But Iām not mad keen on the slot-machine aspect to his play and this accentuates it to my mind. And I think Refractor has real potential. Itās a big saving relative to Gordian Blade and itās in faction with most of the good Stealth cards.
Then thereās the over-priced stuff. Iām looking at you Supplier, BlacKat, BOX-E and Rachel Beckman, all of which I think need to be a credit or two cheaper to be viable. I think BOX-E in particular would be very playable at 3 credits in Anarch or Shaper (Criminal has Desperado - nach). Order of Sol Iām on the fence on. Itās clearly aimed at Nasir and I wouldnāt rule it out of other event/recuring credit-based economies either. But I think it might be slightly too expensive up front.
Finally, Duggarās is just silly. It has enormous potential but I feel it is too slow. As an Event that cost four clicks to play I think it would be fine. As a Resource that the Corp can see coming I donāt quite see it working.
(Yikes this is a long postā¦).
So on balance, I think the corps get the better end of the deal again with the new toys pretty evenly spread between them. But they will have to live with a new, hyper-aggressive, runner and an already resurgent Noise being able to get into archives ahead of Jackson Howard. Add in the possibility of stealth-powered shaper decks - probably out of Nasir - and I donāt think this set is anything like as one-sided as Spaces or Upstalk was.
What about Keyhole? I think thatās a valid use and, as was discussed in another thread, is the only card which helps against NEH and Jinteki by making the most out of runs but not exposing you to traps. Nevertheless, the one copy per deck restriction is pretty annoying. You want it early while Archives is cheap to run and you can play it for free, but before you bring in the mill effects. But with that restriction it will be pretty hard to get it early so youāll either have to pay full price for it or hit archives in the mid-game, but by then you might as well just access rather than play the Shard.
Good point. I forgot about Keyhole (although personally I donāt like it).
Even late game I think paying for Shard can sometimes be worth it because of the way it forces Jacksons. Itās the one influence that I think will be tricky. Is it better than a Cache?
I think Hades Shard can be pretty useful in a Keyhole deck as well. I play quite a bit of Keyhole and often find an iceād up archives more problematic than it should be. I donāt want to run it at the end of every turn when I can just Keyhole again, but thereās always the chance the Corp is sitting on Jackson in hand, so you donāt want to delay it too much either.
But yeah, outside of that and Noise itās not useful.
Edit: Well, Arkhon beat me to it.
Haha, I stand corrected. Whatever the card is, I look forward to playing it. My favorite runner ID in a long time.
Yep, I was being dumb and stacking incompatible conditions, without which it doesnāt matter anyway.
[quote=ābayushi_david, post:28, topic:1807ā]
It feels like the release schedule is on steroids or something.
[/quote]Isnāt it because of the delay? They want everything out in time for Worlds in November, Iād heard, so they need to amp up to make the deadline/catch up.
Good god. Yog into Siphon all but guaranteed to land, ugh. Might leave you with a tag, depending, but stillā¦ thatās a nice combo, there. Dunno if a clone chip or e3ād fill the remaining influence better ā itās a shame indexing is less good for her.
Barriers end the run. Being able to make successful runs without a barrier breaker makes some of the strongest cards in the game even stronger. I think siphon spam DLR decks are an obvious place to start. Or maybe some desperado builds with clone chips for parasite recursion.
Being able to ignore early Wraparounds is also very strong right now. How many decks can defend both HQ and RnD in the early game when their barriers are neutralized? Now imagine a deck that can put pressure on all three centrals from turn 1. That sounds strong to me.
6 Likes
Double click gets you through Heimdall 1 and 2 also
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Quetzalās ability stays strong the entire game, like Gabeās. I think she is set to be as strong an ID as Noise. Breaking a barrier subroutine will always save you money, even in the last turn of the game. She is also going to save you Datasucker tokens. I think Quetzal is one cog in the low(er)-econ Runner machine. We have yet to see it fully realized, but I look forward to trying her out.
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I think the text spoilers are a little further ahead of the print availability in this particular case, relative to snow jaxās earlier reveals. FFGās upcoming website still lists First Contact as on the boat, so itās still a ways away.
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Is it not one of the better Shaper consoles at 1 influence, though?
you do get to build for her though, being able to break the first wraparound each turn means you get to run only ai
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Given the existence of CyberSolutions Mem Chip, the question is whether the bonus +2 handsize is worth the influence. I could see MU-intensive Stimhack Shaper deck wanting it, but I think most Shaper decks have better things to spend influence on.
Also given the existence of Akamatsus, not sure if CyberSolutions is worth the deck slot ;).
I think @Crunchums summed it up: you have MU options coming out of your ass as Shaper, so choosing BOX-E means youāre paying an influence premium just for the hand size really.
Most of the Shaper archetypes at the moment either build around a specific console or donāt need one. I think I choose Toolbox, Dinosaurus, Grimoire, Deep Red, Desperado and possibly even Doppelganger over BOX-E. Plus Shapers have Astrolabe on the Horizon too.
At the moment hand size isnāt a big deal, but thatās not to say it wonāt be in the future.