Love the adam matchup, personally. Abuse NAT to either make him broke if he checks, or sneak out agendas if he doesn’t (I run TFIN as well as titan). Corp town can be brutal for adams who don’t run a real rig, and even with e3 he hates multi-sub ice.
ymmv I guess depending on what list you’re running and how good your adam opponents are…
Cross-posting this Reddit topic from @IirionClaus (hope he doesn’t mind), since he has a different take than has been discussed here so far:
anathomical and I have been working on a cool Gagarin horizontal build; we played some games and discussed the concept here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0XoRVPbil4
My most current deck list can be found here: Deckbuilder · NetrunnerDB
Right now we’re both feeling that this is a promising build (especially with Jeeves Model Bioroids just around the corner). Personally, I plan to take it to Store Championship season. A few people on Twitter have also picked it up, with good results. Sleeve it, try it, enjoy it!
Thanks @tvaduva, did not notice this thread. Looks like our Goddess deck is somewhat different from the other ideas on this thread (at least based on cursory observations). Our ice counts are lower and we have many more Gagarin targets (current build has 36: 26 assets, 9 agendas plus Takeover, one Cyberdex).
Personal note, I feel that if you’re spending influence on ice you might want to revise your ice mix. Influence is very tight and I think that spending it on assets is the better direction.
Interesting approach, I’m curious how it doesn’t get steamrolled by aggressive RnD pressure? seems extremely vulnerable to deep medium digs or RDI lock. (not meant to be rhetorical or judgey; is it a speed thing? what’s your plan vs. concerted RnDattack?) I like the concept, not sure though how it would hold up against opponents who remember how to handle nearpad.
Yep, that’s the idea. Neither Switchblade nor Shrike are popular right now. I heard some ideas for Kate Nexus decks, which could also be problematic, we’ll see whether they gain in popularity during SCs. Otherwise you lock them out of R&D using Tour Guide(s).
Tour guide has legs in gagarin imo - when parasite is your only reasonable answer, they seem to run out pretty quick. still, without many other targets…
They’re everywhere around me, I expect this deck to be in full swing come SCs. Dunno for sure just how strong it’ll end up being, but definitely worth keeping in mind imo.
well, it’s interesting enough to give it a run in jinteki.net. Once the runner know what the deal with the deck is it seems likeit’ll be a tough row to hoe to me, but I want to see it in action before I judge.
Exactly. That, plus Blacklist. Oftentimes a Blacklist behind a Tour Guide can seal the game.
I’ve been playing on both sides of the table and I still have issues dealing with Gaga. It’s a flexible build that can handle a lot of different counters. It still requires tuning, though, and there are several open questions on the build (I’m going to try 2x CVS and DBS instead of Encryption, for example).
I think this is correct. I watched the vid of you playing against that Gagarin yesterday and wasn’t impressed with Encryption Protocol (I really never am). The CVS was good for anti Medium protection.
The problem I was seeing is that Gagarin has to gamble on remotes, tossing out agendas and hoping they don’t get run, sort of like Cambridge PE, but instead of taking damage the runner has to weigh losing some economy. It’s a strength and a weakness. As with PE, though, R&D lock is rough, but Gaga doesn’t punish multiaccess quite as hard. I think the Gagarin player just has to never hold any agendas besides NAPDs and leverage the advantage that un-run remotes give. Not sure how you really keep the runner from running the unrezzed remotes. I guess that’s what Encryption Protocol was for?
In my play with Gaga, the Encryptions weren’t doing what I really wanted… What I really wanted them to do was make it so that the runner literally couldn’t trash the thing they were about to access. However, that doesn’t work for Campaigns that have to be rezzed. If I tried, they just would decline to access and not lose their money.
In my current build, I’ve taken out the Encryptions and a Lotus Field and went to 3x Ash. Holy crap, Ash is awesome in Gagarin. Imagine Ash being a Trace 5 - Trash 4 upgrade instead. Because that’s what he is in Gagarin.
I’ve also been toying with the idea of using Launch Campaigns… But, do note that my build is Glacier-style, and is trying to score a pair of 5/3’s, and lets Public Support get the last point.
I agree with @CJFM that it looks like Turtle Gaga is trying to be Cambridge PE, except Cambridge leveraged the fact that the Runner can’t click for cards infinitely… The Runner can click for credits, though.
(I’m also reaaaally not a fan of that Government Takeover…)
Would a 1-of Shannon Claire make sense to hide the Government? It’s 2 influence and there’s 3x EBC in the deck to find her. The deck does have a lot of shuffle effects because of the 3x EBC, but Shannon can lurk for a while and be used anytime.
Right, that’s why I pointed out the higher than normal shuffle effects in this deck (3x EBC plus the standard 3x Jackson). Would being able to hide nearly a 1/3 of your points, while you still have a way to score from Public Support, be a good enough upside to have to be extra careful with shuffles? The 2x Interns would also help.
I find that highly unlikely. If you want nigh-untrasheable assets, play IG. Gaga can only stall them. Or punish them later.
That’s only relevant if you can defend the remote well – which I could see in a glacier deck. OTOH, if you’re playing glacier, I’m not sure that Gagarin is the right identity for you, since you’re not going to cost the runner that much money. Titan might be a better fit.
Once the engine is set up you score out quite quickly.
They need to find it for you to lose, and that happens surprisingly rarely. You clamp on R&D rather quickly. Heck, I had at least one game where Takeover was chillin’ on the table for the entire game, unperturbed. It’s great for thinning your deck and opening room for these delicious assets.
No influence. Also, like you yourself said, you shuffle a lot. You often end up recursing EBCs with TSs. It’s common to shuffle your deck 4-5 times a game.
I’m actually not a fan of tour guide. I feel like with the discussion going on here that it’s a complete crutch to enable the deck to win. “they can’t kill it forever” “we have blacklist so they can’t keep parasiting it” “TS keeps bringing it back”.
Hearing things like that is discerning. If it’s your only way of scoring, you might be building wrong. With a completely horizontal build, I don’t see how you even score any of the public supports? They’re just tax?
Nexus kate IS a thing and does trump out tour guide. Of course, so does Escher, which some kate players are still running so… this is why I’m so apprehensive of how much people seem to be willing to go all in on tour guide. This isn’t PE, your shell game is only as good as your ability to score in this list since you can’t flatline.
DBS is 100% better than encryption protocols. I agree. I also tested launch campaigns and if you’re on TS with a semi-glacial build, they’re great to recur. Can also interns them if you can protect it.
I’m not sold at all on full horizontal game plan. Someone convince me.
played a few games last night - it’s actually not anywhere near as weak as I thought it’d be (I won 4 of 7 games or 3 of 6… can’t remember exactly), but it definitely isn’t close to competition ready.
[quote=“Four_Leaf, post:318, topic:4134”]
Hearing things like that is discerning. If it’s your only way of scoring, you might be building wrong. With a completely horizontal build, I don’t see how you even score any of the public supports? They’re just tax?
[/quote]the word you’re looking for is either disconcerting or concerning. anyways, I really agreed with this, but in practice it actually did end up working out a lot of the time - spiderweb is the other 3x ice and general everyone wanted to parasite that one too. it’s a good enough taxer (of either credits or lady counters) to score out a public support or two, and it’ll buy you time on RnD in a pinch.
[quote=“Four_Leaf, post:318, topic:4134”]
Nexus kate IS a thing and does trump out tour guide.
[/quote] yes. had a loss to a nexus kate and it wasn’t even close. hard RnD lock, plenty of cash for key trashes. the only loss I had without the runner finding government takeover.
[quote=“Four_Leaf, post:318, topic:4134”]
I’m not sold at all on full horizontal game plan. Someone convince me.
[/quote] I don’t know if there’s much here, honestly? my other two losses were to whizzard. He’s still popular, and properly played he can stomp this deck pretty easily.
the deck has legs against a couple of good archetypes - classic ppvp kate can have real trouble, as will most non-whizzard anarchs. crims did fine until they ran out of faeries, then it’s a pushover matchup if they didn’t find GT yet. Overall, interesting take, but I probably won’t be coming back to it.
At least, that’s why I haven’t put in Tour Guide recently.