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German Nationals 2016


#1

I’m back from my trip to the Fatherland, and had an excellent time as always. Didn’t do very well at the Nationals, but did smash an awful lot of programs up, which was hilarious, and as a bonus commentated on the loser’s final too.

All the Germans were amazing and I look forward to more trips there next time. Maybe Regionals?

German Nationals on t’blog


#2

It’s a shame the TOs behaved so disrespectfully. It’s all very well understood that FFG cannot and will not have a better solution for rules, so I honestly can’t fathom why a TO would take it into their own hands rather than accept the responsibility to keep up to date on the latest news. This is even worse, as the TO knew from the get go that they were going against the KNOWN INTERACTION. Damon has already given an endorsement of ANCUR (and even made the exact same ruling in question), but I guess some people are just going to do what they’re going to do, head designer be damned. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


#3

I had a great time playing you, hope the heidelberger keeps the current attendance policy so we can get some more tourists :slight_smile:

As far as I understand, that was an official decision by FFGOP, so putting it on the judge is being a bit disingenious (sp?). Falko is not to blame for FFGs and the Heidelbergers failing to put out cohesive FAQs and rulings.


#4

There was a known answer to the interaction in question. The TO knowingly chose to ignore this and have his players play the game incorrectly. Would it be amazing if FFG had better rules management? Yes. Do TOs still have an important responsibility to the game, the community, and the integrity of tournaments? Duh.


#5

I don’t want to start a fight over this. However, you need to recognize the German situation on this: Heidelberger theoretically put out their own FAQ and tournament rules, which are theoretically the framework for German tournaments. There is no German FAQ for current interactions, so Falko asked FFGOP. They told him to take the FAQ as framework and use his own understanding and he did. I can understand why you are furious at this decision, as it is your answer that is being ignored. Still, the situation is quite complicated, and I see no reason to doubt Falko’s explanations.

Edit: Also, we as a community are trying to improve the rules/framework situation, because nobody wants something like this to happen.


#6

I’m not trying to start a fight either, but I do think it is important that TOs take their responsibility very seriously. When they fail, they need to know.

No, they told him that the ruling was unofficial - this is the response all questions about rulings receive because it is FFG policy. Only card text and FFG published rules documents are “official” for obvious reasons. Even to FFG, rulings from the head designer are not considered “official”.

This is not an excuse for playing the game incorrectly.

This isn’t my answer, it’s Damon’s. I gave the answer first because I knew what it would be, and then Damon confirmed - multiple times - that it was the correct interpretation.


#7

I agree with this and I’m reasonably sure he knows that people were unhappy with that decision for various reasons. As for the other stuff you wrote, that is good to know and I will take that to heart when I TO/judge myself and be sure to share it with others. Things that you know like the way FFG uses “official” and the way FFG communicates are not necessarily understood by everyone (I did not know until you wrote it!).
I hope the whole framework situation can be improved, not only on FFGs side but also Heidelberger’s and the same thing can be prevented in the future. There is work to be done, and going on right now too.


#8

If there are official guidelines for TOs and such, I’d love to see them. It’s easy to see the tangle we got in with Lukas tweeting one thing then another after he’d had a think etc.

What would be cool is Damon giving his “this is what to do about rules” pitch to the community as a whole (for transparency) and particularly to TOs across the world so we get a holistic view. As Labbes has said, what is understood to be how FFG works is not necessarily common knowledge or applied consistently.

I don’t want to get into talk of TOs failing, what I want to do is clarify what the best approach is and have everyone understand this and get it shared as broadly as possible. We need to educate and support people who run tournaments and help the game improve across the piece.

Of course if someone is deliberately trying to sabotage a tournament or being wilfully ignorant of people’s wishes or the actual rules, a conversation needs to be had. From my point of view though, that’s not what happened here.

There is an opportunity to learn from the experience though and work together to produce a more coordinated future. :slight_smile:


#9

The resources already exist. That’s what makes me most upset. I made ANCUR for this exact purpose, and pretty much everyone is on board with that. For the German community to not be on board for some reason, is just irresponsible IMO. If people were really that interested in making sure they were being consistent, they would be having that conversation. But they’re not, they’re just playing the game however they want.

I agree with you and hope that this is a way for people to reach out and start having that conversation. I would love to be setting that up. (As we can see, FFG isn’t doing it.)


#10

I get what you’re saying, but to look at it from another direction, I wouldn’t have known what ANCUR is made for - and I’ve no idea if pretty much everyone is on board with that idea - can you be certain? A note from Damon to TOs to say “ANCUR is the bomb, you should use that shizzle” would make all the difference. FFG OP could use include it in standard responses “We don’t make ruling clarifications, but here’s what the head designer has to say…”.

I don’t see it as someone being as being irresponisble, more there’s an education piece that needs to happen. How many other TOs around the world are unaware of the “gold standard” or unsure about using (what is, on the face of it) an unofficial resource? I can see people being wary of using something that has “unofficial” in the title.

I think some pimping from Damon or other voices of authority could go a long way here.


#11

Falco the Head Judge is a classy guy, who is trying to give everybody a good time at a tourney. I think you are doing him a great injustive by calling him disrespectful etc. We all appreciate your effort in collecting all the rulings, but the problem with ancur is the unofficial part. Maybe we can get FFG to change ancur into ancor, then stuff like that wont happen in the future. Falko tried his best, asked FFGOP, was let down by them and therefore issued the ruling like he did.
Dont blame him


#12

Refering to unofficial sources is forbiden by tournament rules. I think german judge was doing his best.

Also I am not sure that there should be case law in game like that. Damon can rethink on his verbal ruling and release reverse rule in FAQ. Official document (rules and FAQ) - is the only thing to base TO rulings on.


#13

Did he or did he not knowingly make a ruling that directly contradict the understood intent as given by the head designer of the game?

This really isn’t that complicated. If anyone can show me where in the official rules to base the incorrect ruling off of, I would gladly concede the “disrespect” aspect of what I am saying. The official rules are not comprehensive. When they do not suffice, like in this situation, a TO must use their best judgment to interpret the interaction. I absolutely understand a TO who does not know the latest ruling, even if I do think such a TO is irresponsible for not paying attention to the resources available to them - especially at the Nationals level! This is suppsoed to be the biggest tournaent in the region of the year! However, this is no such case. In this case, the TO knowingly and specifically undermined a ruling from the head designer in a situation where no person can reasonably claim the official rules are adequate. How can you call this anything but purposeful and disrespectful?

Damon already gave a public endorsement of ANCUR, as cited at the top of the Flashpoint UFAQ. To ask for anything more of the company that publishes the game is misguided.


#14

BTW
I just checked 23 second and SI ufaqs at ANCUR and neither of subject questions appears there. Why do we discuss ANCUR in this topic?

Back on theme.
Should the judge check twitters, slacks, etc to find what Damon said on gencon? Probablly all these sources have distorted Damon ruling? I think until he heard the ruling himself it is fine to ignore it.


#15

I didn’t follow all conversation, and i dont want to read all of it.

The German TO ruled based of official rules.
He did a great job, and i didn’t hear of anyone at the Event blaming him for it.
There is no official ruling for it, so he clarified the rules for this event, which we was very thankful about.

Your Project Ancur is a helpful source for players, but it is not official.

Its his right as a TO to ignor Ancur, cause there is no official ruling.
Accept that please, be proud that your project is important to players, but stop blaming Falco for beeing a good TO.


#16

Indeed,
as long there isn’t an official ruling
there need to be a decision made by the TO/Main Judge

Yeah ANCUR is a great resource and if the TOs
juge based on this rules it’s perfectly fine
if not too


#17

Hey @evilgaz, was very nice to have you and Timo at the German Nats, had great fun with you.
If you want to come back for a Regional, i recommand you join one in the Rhein/Ruhr Grid, namely Cologne, Düsseldorf , or maybe Dortmund.
Those have the biggest player base usually and additionally, there are several Airports close to it.
And I could offer you a stay, if you dont mind sharing a house with my wife, two cats and a child.


#18

Rhein/Ruhr always got the biggest player base for any game/hobby :wink:


#19

What was the interaction in question ?
I’ll be judging in the Belgian national later this month so I’m genuinely interested.


#20

Its about CTM and Salsette Slums.
If the Runner trashed a second card after using Slums in the first trash, does CTM trigger or not.
German TO ruled for the tournament that it triggers.
Ancur claims that it should not trigger.