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"Hey, look at this pretty successful Ken Tenma list": The Crimson-Leaves Strike, Two-time Store Championship Winner

I don’t know about that anymore. Now Midseason decks have so many kill cards to blow away your Carapace. I can see a point of playing Crash Space instead and just banking up and stealing intelligently vs Midseasons.

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Yeah, but that’s sorta the point - they have to find the cards to blow away your Carapace, then they have to find the cards to blow away you. All of this is costing them time and resources, which you can use to try to win before you lose. Crash Space gives you none of that, as “trash a resource” is simply a rules action, rather than a card effect.

Please do elaborate on this, as it has always stricken me like a BS answer - easy to utter, but practically undoable in the realities of a match in progress.

In a Midseasons matchup, how do you:

  • “Steal intelligently” from a remote? Obviously you can’t really let more than two agendas slide, and each one you do makes the whole endeavor so much riskier
  • Pressure RnD? Only running RnD when you have more money than them isn’t really an answer you can depend on, and you can always access some must-trash stuff, or an NAPD. Do you only run when you are un-Midseasonable even if the agenda you’d steal were an NAPD?
    • Even so, you can’t always account for everything… like, do you play around the possibility of them holding or mandatory drawing a Restructure?
  • How about HQ? Mostly the same question, with the added “benefit” of the corp being more in control re: composition

So far, the only thing I can come up with is “Imp everything, steal 7 points all at once”, which obviously has issues if you’re anything but Anarch (ideally Noise). Being able to trash accessed agendas, and trash agendas instead of accessing them (hello, Keyhole) obviously has merit, as it brings you closer to the 7-point blitz part of the plan, but not everyone can reasonably pack these things.

I didn’t mean anything fancy. Take risks early on, while it is probable they don’t sit on problem cards yet. Money up. Force rezzing to make the corp poorer by whiffing Siphon intentionally. Try to access cards only if your bank account can handle Midseason.

All this is easier said then done, sure. But my point is that by allowing yourself to get Midseasoned and playing Plascrete isn’t any better. Both situations suck. And if they do, why not employ the first method and play Crash Space for other reasons than Midseasons.

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That’s a pretty bold claim. Andy has been demonstrably good (and at points unplayably good) for ages, Leela has been good for a bit. Leela gets worse if there are fewer agendas in the world (maybe lots worse, but I’m not too sure about that). The Link helps Andy but that 9 card hand (with mulligan) is a really good power.

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Wow, it’s like… instead of using logic and rational debate to comment on the merits of my statements, you took the one semi-goofy obvious statement that I make and tried to invalidate everything I said via one sarcastic comment.

Boy, I sure am glad I come to Stimhack for this enlightening conversation! Stimhack is truly the pinnacle of Netrunner knowledge and wisdom!

I moved 6 posts to an existing topic: It’s not that hard, and she’s pretty hardcore - Leela Patel

Hey, mods? Can we move all this Leela shit into the Leela thread please?

[quote=“PeekaySK, post:47, topic:3350”]
(in the Leela thread, where it belongs)[/quote]

My thoughts exactly.


Well, Andy goes away in the first rotation, so would Leela then become the go-to criminal? personally I’m not sold, and I think that honor would go to Gabe.

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No doubt. 'Grats on the performance, but there’s nothing magical here outside of only 2 Desperado. Was actually surprised to not see Planned Assault.

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Have any of you stopped to think that maybe “Andysucker” isn’t actually Andysucker, but is simply the optimal Criminal playstyle? At least, the optimum style for a deck that doesn’t have a specific gimmick.

I’m still waiting for someone to post up some ideas on what a “proper” Ken Tenma list is supposed to look like…

I like you Spags, you’re a funny guy.

Three Desperado is just straight redundant. Even El-ad thinks two is enough. The Security Testing is more important. Maybe a third Sec Testing for increased consistency would be good, but you’re never going to be using three of them at a time.

My God… why would you use Planned Assault? Why not just have three copies of your events?

Every criminal in the top 16 at worlds 2014 was running 3 Desperado. Even El-ad. In Andromeda who can get a Desperado in the opening hand easier than every other criminal.


This appears to be the thread for bold claims. Desperado is the card you want most of all in your opening hand. It’s so much money. I’ve done plenty of ‘testing’ with 2, before buying my third core. It’s worse. If, for example you turned your second feedback filter into a desperado, this deck would be better. I’m not in Korrigan’s list. I’m getting my popcorn ready for when Mediohxcore turns up and sets you straight though.


Right. Also, remember that he ran only 1 Siphon, and went 3-6 with Andy at Worlds.


My thoughts exactly. He isn’t exactly the template for great criminal play or deckbuilding.

And here’s another bold claim - if you aren’t playing 3 Desperado, you are doing it wrong.
And another - if you think playing 2 Desperado is more correct than playing 3 - you are likely bad at Netrunner.

I’ll edit to explain myself. Desperado is the best card in the game, and getting it early is often the difference between winning, and losing. You want to maximize your odds of winning by getting it as early as possible. Is drawing a second (or third) annoying? Yes, but it is worth the ability to win more often by having it early. Show me a criminal deck with 2 desperados, I’ll show you a better one with 3.


checking the calendar

Nope, I’m not Bill Murray in ‘Groundhog’s Day’. Day def. flipped to April 2nd.


Here we go. Nothing like a chum-baiting statement to get the good players in the game to hulk out and become an asshole, like me.

Love it.


Maybe I’m just confused by ~crazy stimhack etiquette~, but isn’t the onus on you to show us what a proper tenma deck looks like? Your brother’s deck is obvious (which isn’t a bad thing; it’s obvious for a reason) and you seem awfully perturbed by people pointing that out, but a new thread wasn’t necessary to show that certain blue cards are good.

Edit for spelling, woo


I’ll just rephrase Jesse’s statement and say that Desperado has been the best runner card in the game since day 1 (maybe tied with parasite pre-lotus field). Getting it in play on the first turn off the game gives you a ridiculously good shot at winning said game. This is why Andromeda is played the most. Having Desperado on turn one is better than any other runner ability.

That being said, yeah, this deck looks like it shits all over PE. It was a good choice for the meta down there. Having the large opening hand doesn’t necessarily help vs net damage.


Eh, you (like everyone else that has met me) knows what I am like. Nice guy, honest to a fault. I just tell it like it is, maybe that is why I don’t post much, doesn’t seem to translate as well on the internet as it does in real life.


My mom says the same thing about me.