How do we make Weyland good?

Netrunner General
182

I have neither claimed Weyland is a top tier faction nor denied they are in the worst shape currently. I am challenging the claim that any decklist/archetype that doesn’t make a Top 16 didn’t have the potential to. RNG (match ups included) and pilot skill become increasingly important in determining placement of underrepresented IDs/factions, because the sample size isn’t large enough to mitigate their impact. Moreover, this is the first and only tournament we have to inform the D&D meta, and just because it was Worlds doesn’t change that.

The only thing one can assert from a deck not placing Top 16 at Worlds is that any number of the following were not present: deck strength; pilot skill; luck. I consider it ignorant to assert too much based on lists alone unless one has access to actual data regarding the other two factors.

183

Well, let’s broaden the scope, I think there are about 6 Weyland decks in the top 120 places. If Weyland were better - they’d have had more placings than that surely?

All things being equal you’d expect each Corp to have roughly 30 placings, give or take depending on popularity and a host of other factors, but 1 in 20 out of the top half of the competition? You’ve got to concede those aren’t good numbers right?

With such a large competition as Worlds things like bad draws, luck etc., are all evened out, plus the competition has a proportionally hight percentage of skill with the inclusion of National and other Champions from across the globe.

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184

My hope with lateral growth is that it won’t “actually” be 2 inf because there’ll also be powerful HB alliance cards that work well in weyland decks. I’m not sure that just Jeeves is worth it at the moment though.

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[quote=“evilgaz, post:183, topic:5699”]
With such a large competition as Worlds things like bad draws, luck etc., are all evened out[/quote]
This is a reductive claim that cannot be substantiated. Besides all the factors to consider on a player’s Corp side, there is an entire other side of performance, Runner, which accounts for overall placement of a player and his/her decks. That Runner side performance is also determined by those 3 factors. I’m not here disagreeing that Weyland is at the bottom overall; I’m just arguing that it’s reductive and incorrect to claim a faction’s viability by its failure to place in the Top 16 at Worlds. There are too many other factors to consider. I dont think BS Foodcamp is totally dismissable.

Anyway everyone is missing my points. I am also in this thread because I feel Weyland needs some help overall.

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186

IG has been acknowledged as very strong a for long time among several cirlces of very good players. The issue has always been time constraints with IG. It’s one of the strongest ID’s in the game.

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187

More on the idea of Weyland ice, if rush is to be the plan maybe it needs more powerful gear checks. There is a lot of design space around ‘end the run’ still to be explored.

For example how about an ice that needs two icebreakers to be beaten? (And is thus AI hate without saying it out loud)?

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188

Problem being, it also requires AI/extra icebreakers - not really something I’m comfortable with as a deck requirement.

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189

An upgrade like Cyberdex Virus Suite that clears Power Counters.

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190

An upgrade that means cards can’t be installed during runs on the server?

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191

do u know how to contact those players? im happy to test some weyland against them :smile:

also this:

dont get me wrong, weyland is subpar, but it’s a lot closer than most of us think (imo).

192

Very cool, but I think it might need a second subtype like code gate to be balanced.

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193

At least. It should probably have all subtypes, like Rainbow/Orion.

194

I was actually thinking about something like that as well. Either a prevent effect:

“rez when the runner is about to search their stack for a program. When [insert card name] is rezed, trash it and prevent the runner from searching his or her stack.”

…or perhaps a current or asset?

“The runner cannot search his or her stack for a program.”

NBN has blacklist to turn off clone chips, etc. Would it be too powerful for Weyland to be able to turn off tutors, if it was just for programs (arguably the most important tutors)?

If so, make it at least 3 influence, and/or allow only 1 in the deck kind of thing?

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195

One per deck restrictions are terrible design. A blacklist for tutors could be a strong card though, but it doesn’t need to be arbitrarily variance based like one per deck.

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196

Weyland loves it’s Operations almost as much as HB loves installing stuff. What about a Weyland analog to Architect?

Draftsman
Barrier Cost: 6 Str: 3 Influence: 4
No programs can be hosted on Draftsman.
-> The Corp may play one Operation from HQ, ignoring all costs.
-> The Corp may search Archives for one Operation and shuffle it into R&D.
-> End the run.

OP? Indeed. Will it give people a reason to to play Weyland? Maybe. :wink:

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197

Restructure for free is a little too dumb for words

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198

A lot of Blue Sun decks are built around trying to get 14 credits for 1, and still people don’t play green. :frowning:
Maybe 16 for free would. Dumb like a fox, I say. :wink:

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199

and what happens when that subroutine fires An Offer You Cant Refuse?

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200

I feel like sharing a couple cards I’ve thought of, though I do feel a little dumb doing so, because it amounts to nothing.

Bad Pub is a really interesting downside, because in the short term against binary ice it does nothing but in the long term it is a huge downside. Weyland doesn’t need cards that get better with or require bad pub (I always cringe when I see stuff like that), and I don’t think they need more ways to avoid/clear bad pub. Instead I really think that Weyland needs a piece of illicit ice that actually helps them rush, or other ways that just make taking a bad pub worth the effect

Title 33
Ice: Barrier
Rez: 2 / Strength: 4
W●●

When you rez Title 33, take 1 bad publicity.

↳The Corp gains 2$.
↳End the run.
↳End the run.

Title 33 Section 12b Paragraph 2 of the standard Titan Transnational Customer Contract allows for the emergency allocation of account holder funds to counter cyberintrusion.

This takes illicit ice in sort of a new direction. It doesn’t have some horrible effect if it fires and it’s not super taxing, it’s just amazing, ridiculously cost effective. It’s the perfect piece of ice to score out behind turn 1 or 2.

◆The Castle
Asset: Facility
Rez: 1 / Trash: 5
W●●●●

Whenever you score an agenda, you may play an operation from HQ or Archives (paying the play cost).

The most exclusive and infamous nightlife club in the worlds.

Team Sponsorship but for Weyland. It’s very good for rush, giving you momentum whenever you score, and allows for nice combos with Aggressive Negotiation (a cool but underpowered card) or Posted Bounty into Scorched Earth. Even just with Beanstalk or Hedge, it’s pretty decent economy that even combos with the core ID. Unique, because I feel like the combos would be ridiculous otherwise.

Goons
Operation: Black Ops - Priority
Play: 2
W●●●

Play only as your first click, and only if the Runner is tagged.
Trash 1 installed piece of hardware or do 1 meat damage.

Nice stuff.

I love the design space of priority tag punishment. It can be very powerful, without being overpowered because it doesn’t work with SEA Source. It honestly really bugs me that people can easily go tag-me versus Weyland, just by installing a Plascrete or two or by holding I’ve Had Worse. I actually think it’s good that if you remove plascretes and clear tags, you are basically safe from Scorch flatline, but I think going tag-me should come with additional risks.

Anyway, as much thought as I’ve put into these, I’m still more interested in what’s really down the road for Weyland. I have an irrational amount of faith that they will get something in Mumbad cycle that will blow all of our socks off and be way stronger and more interesting than any of these.

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201

Spengler: It would be bad.
Venkman: I’m fuzzy on the whole good/bad thing. What do you mean, “bad”?
Spengler: Try to imagine all life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light.
Ray Stantz: Total protonic reversal!

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