Either that, or give Weyland a hammer that wipes ALL power counters.
I would love to see some cards that can be installed/hosted on runner cards.
Counter Worm
Asset-Ambush
If Counter Worm is accessed from R&D the runner must reveal it.
When Counter Worm is accessed you may pay 3 credits to host it on an installed program. When the host program is used give the runner 1 tag.
Stakeout
Operation-Condition
Host stakeout on an installed Connection or Location. When host resource is used give the runner 1 tag.
Agent Provocateur
Asset-Gray Ops
When you rez Agent Provocateur take one bad publicity. [Click]: Do 1 meat damage and trash a resource with cost less than current amount of Bad Publicity.
4 Likes
Canât agree enough with this, I always cringe when people suggest this. The one way I think they could make it work is as a removal tool - the current removal tools cost a ton of credits or donât remove enough or are otherwise just tough to justify including. something that would allow you to dump some a bunch of BP for a small gain (1 credit per?) wouldnât be abuseable, wouldnât take away BP as a drawback (still takes cardslots, the runner still gets turn after turn of free money) but would allow W players to realistically expect to be able to clear their BP as mid-late game approaches.
2 Likes
Saying that one cannot wait for Project Atlas to go away is baffling to me. Without Atlas Weyland Rush immediately disappears as an archetype. Without a 3/2 the agenda spread in the faction necessitates glacier or gimmicky kill decks. I canât believe anyone who likes or plays Weyland much would say such a thing. The presence of Atlas is the only reason we can run Snare. Weyland has no 3/2 in Core, and I for one sincerely hope they directly reprint Atlas because I feel it is central to the faction both thematically and mechanically.
Even if Weyland does get stronger, itâll be tough to avoid BS shoring out all the other (current) IDs. I think itâs been established that it does Weyland glacier best, and if more players tried it theyâd find it does rush better than Argus and GRNDL. It certainly does the gimmicky kill decks best, too. Gagarin isnât bad, but BS can play Public Support too, maybe to better effect than Gagarin.
All this thread has really done is made me excited to play my BS Rush and Gagarin Glacier again. I felt obligated to play some of the new yellow IDs but my heart wasnât in them. Iâll take a green loss to a yellow win any day. Weyland likely isnât on bottom by a huge margin, same as Criminal. I think Criminals issue may be the explosion of good Code Gates, while Weylands is a choke on influence. As others have said, an in-faction upgrade for glacier and/or an alternative to Tollbooth would go a long way in freeing up some influence for glacier. Helping Rush is trickier.
6 Likes
I agree with most of what you say, butâŚ3/2 isnât necessary for rush. IME the rushiest card out there (Fast Track!) fits perfectly with 4/2s. Like, say, Oaktown.
Finally, Atlas is mostly a 4/2 anyway. Itâs a bonus that itâs a 3/2 for finishing the game.
I understand that, but even with Atlas in the pool it can be nearly impossible to score your last agenda, and if the ability to threaten the win from an unadvanced card in your remote, Rushâs prospects look even more grim. Just my opinion.
1 Like
Good point. I mostly win off a Batty-Archer or Batty-Grim, and fetch the winning agenda with FT or tokens, but it IS a very nice option. I also tend to forget that the runner does not, in fact, know every card I play. I get too far into the Weyland mindset.
Titan FA is, imo, the 2nd Weyland build atm (behind BS glacier). That deck is 100% non-functional without Atlas.
2 Likes
I think that Weyland has the smallest playable card pool of all factions. Most of their mechanics are fine in theory, but their actual implementation has been so weak so as to render them useless. Look at Order and Chaos, practically everything in that box is either unplayable (Searchlight, Satellite Grid, The Board), way behind the curve (Nebula, Orion, Patch) or made for a different faction (Traffic Accident, Space Camp). And most packs have been like that, Weyland has remained playable on the back of Archer, Scorched and the issue-mitigating Blue Sun more than anything else.
Here are my suggestions:
1) Operation economy: Weyland has practically far fewer economic options than the other Corporations and most possible archetypes are unplayable as a result. Just 1 card, perhaps 2 would absolutely solve this issue and put GRNDL, BABW and Argus on the same level as Blue Sun.
Really, a transaction that installed a piece of ICE ignoring the install cost and replaced itself in either cards or credits would be more than enough.
2) A way to score big agendas that isnât Scorched. Weyland has a lot of cards to support a grindy, powerful playstyle with very few agendas like Hive, High-Risk Investment or Goverment takeover except, you know, a way to keep them in the remote. It doesnât need to be another Ash or Caprice, as long as itâs powerful enough so as to build around it it will work.
3) A mid-size punishing ICE that is not Archer. That is, an equivalent to Ichi 1.0 or Archangel, something I can put on top of Hive to create a worthwhile server. Assassin has helped but it doesnât actually help Weyland compared to the other factions.
4) Build-around cards that support its main mechanics (BP, Advanceable ICE, program trashing, etc). This is difficult because the cards that use these mechanics are often very simple and thereâs not a lot that can be done to boost them. But really, just a way to keep 3BP from being completely suicidal would be cool.
5) A way to force a run that isnât a âIâll get more moneyâ threat. In that sense, Corporate Town and Public Support are huge moves in the right direciton.
Now some random suggestions:
6) More ICE like Tour Guide. Remaking cards like Bug Zapper, Dog Pile and other âgets better the more rezzed ICE there is in a serverâ cards would not only be thematic, it would be a different way to build a glacier deck and would reduce the need for an upgrade or for rushy Archer/Curtain Wall soltuions.
7) Reprint Data Masons. Reprint World Domination. Coincidence? I think not.
2 Likes
Imo, its too early to say Weyland is bad atm.
We had just receieved GFI and BS Glacier has become a tier 1 contender all of a sudden.
Who knows exactly what GFI and Assassin could do for the other Weyland IDs.
But BS Glacier hasnât become a tier 1 contender. The top Blue Sun at Worlds was 30th place. Thatâs not tier 1, and thatâs the problem.
2 Likes
I spend a lot of time fantasizing about new Weyland cards, and I have a whole collection of them. But thereâs any number of ways to give them a new, very good cards or cards that will catapult them into playability. So many, in fact, that it may not be worth speculating about. Iâm more interested in what new cards will come out than could come out. I have faith something big is in Mumbad.
It seems people are somewhat against trying to make advanceable ice an actual thing, but what if Weyland had cards similar to what Anarchs have with regards to virus tokens⌠except for advancement tokens (limiting it to advanceable ice)? They got Satellite Grid in OaC, but what about something like a Hivemind? A piece of ice that can be advanced (only while rezzed?) and all other ice in the server have additional advancement tokens equal to the number of advancement tokens on this ice, for example? And/or something like incubator, or a reverse incubator (it counts down like public support and puts some number of advancement counters on up to the same number of ice when done)? Obviously they would have to be powered down a tad, because thereâs no way for the Runner to remove advancement tokens aside from exploratory rompâŚthen againâŚ
Iâm not going to pretend that I could balance something like that, but I just got the idea and wanted to see what more experienced minds could come up with.
The metagame obviously hasnt stabilized yet.
Who here went into Worlds expecting DLR Val and HB Foodcoats after the release of D&D?
It was not enough time for us to even have a consensus on what real meta was going to look like.
Itâs not like the competitive A: NR scene has the luxury of observing an SCG Open meta a week before the Pro Tour starts which is two weeks after a set comes out.
Even if BS made Top 16 at Worlds it still wouldnt be tier 1 due to the fact that it was underrepresented. What I am saying is that now that Worlds is over Blue Sun Glacier is going to be Tier 1. It has the tools to deal with DLR Val and Kate and naturally has a good match up against Parasite half the time and can profitably turtle up again Crims.
3 Likes
Part of me was thinking there was going to be a Jackson Howard type in all decks that did that draw play and shuffle play differently.
The thing is, most cards Hivemind and Incubator work well with were already decent. There arenât really that many advanceable ice worth playing â and most of those that are only have the distinction because Weyland is so very lacking in options. Starting with 2 advancement counters would make some of them maaaybe playable, but only just â and requiring another card to make that happen? Not reliable enough.
They got something like what you were describing in Hollywood Renovation. I played around with it, but it just wasnât solid enough â especially not now that GFI is out.
[quote=âgh0st_b1rd, post:154, topic:5699â]
Who here went into Worlds expecting DLR Val and HB Foodcoats after the release of D&D?
[/quote]Val was a bit of a shock, but I was expecting Foodcoats for a while now.
3 Likes
i think making Weyland good starts with actually printing in-faction transactions that actually help Weyland
Back Channels affects⌠what? Weyland has no in-faction advanceable traps.
weâre getting Lateral Growth in Mumbad, but itâs purple (and would be SO GOOD with BABW, even at 1 influence)
also, not printing useless cards like Helium-3 Deposit that have literally no synergy with the faction.
i get that Weyland was strong in the core and, in shear spite of all the crap they got in Genesis, still pretty good through spin, but thereâs been a clear decline in the power cards for Weyland since the core. Negotiator would have been amazing if it only had 4 strength. itâd even be worth a bump in cost. Student Loans could maybe have been alright with a 0 rez cost. 3 to trash isnât too unreasonable, and its effects are so situational anyway. at 2 cost to rez, itâs basically unplayable.
Worlds Plaza is already getting an upgrade in Mumbad⌠but itâs yellow!
i will grant that Public Support and Corporate Town are really baller cards and very good for Gagarin. i like Spiderweb and Meru Mati, but pretty much everything from SanSan has been pretty lackluster, and Order & Chaos overall was clearly about helping Anarch and giving more kill tools to NBN
Surat City Grid is cool, and we havenât seen too many green cards overall in Mumbad, but a lot of the yellow, purple, and red cards Iâve seen could have been great if they were green. i really hope the reason we havenât seen any Weyland is because theyâre still testing them and hopefully coming up with something good.
[quote=â666Raziel, post:120, topic:5699â]
I think we have a bad impression about 3/2 because of NBN and HB having 6 of them.But has it ever be an issue for Jinteki ?
[/quote]Jinteki only has 4 though. Philotic is one per deck
[quote=âwarpchy, post:155, topic:5699, full:trueâ]
Part of me was thinking there was going to be a Jackson Howard type in all decks that did that draw play and shuffle play differently.
[/quote]i have been thinking they would do something like this for a while, with 5 influence versions for each corp, butâŚ
i donât think they want to simply turn one ubiquitous card into four ubiquitous cards. i think tools to help agenda flood are necessary, and we have seen some solid replacements for every faction but weyland. i think what weyland needs is more tools to punish agenda steals. Weyland does have things like Government Takeover that help prevent them from being as susceptible to flood in the first place, but i think draw power belongs in NBN (things like Lily Lockwell and Anonymous Tip, Jackson, etc.)
idk. i think the game will be fine without jackson. there will be a need for things to help agenda flood, but i donât think weâll get anything so obvious, and theyâll continue the trend with things like Allele Repression, Crick, Rework, Shannon Claire, Disposable HQ, etc.
2 Likes
You have no idea just how much this pisses me off. Another decent Transaction would have helped BABW significantly, the card is also stupidly thematic in green (Weyland is a construction company; thatâs why walls are their thing), and ETF didnât need another good card.
10 Likes
yeah, pretty much preaching to the choir here. iâve ranted about this card several times already and have pretty much the same feelings haha.
1 Like
Yeah, I can see that with some ice, but others would totally break the rez/str ratios. A 3 str ETR Barrier for 1 rez cost?! Sign me up! Even without that, wouldnât those pieces of ice be more enticing if it were just easier to put counters on them? For example, would you play a str 8 ETR barrier that cost 8 to rez plus a click? Thatâs what I was thinking with the reverse incubator idea:
Have firewall installed, install , rez (for 3?) and put 3 power counters on it, remove 1 power counter at beginning of turn, when no power counters left put up to 3 advancement tokens on up to 3 ice that can be advanced.
The arguments Iâve usually heard for not playing advanceable ice have been mostly that itâs click intensive, not so much that itâs expensive. So design cards that put multiple counters for a single click. If it still seems too expensive, lower the play/rez cost of those cards.
Or even make something that can (maybe?) make woodcutter/tyrant playable? Upgrade that you can trash to rez a piece of ice currently being approached, place advancement tokens on that ice.
Hell, make an advanceable trap that adds advancement tokens to stuff to complement Back Channels. Or an operation that adds advancement tokens based on how much your trace beats their link to leverage a large credit advantage? OrâŚ
All of these things could make advanceable ice completely overpowered if not properly balanced, which means itâs possible to make said ice at least playable with careful implementation, no?
2 Likes