Hypothetical Creation and Control 2.0

I think it would be fun to discuss how a new C&C could look like when rotation hits the Lunar and SanSan cycles. Would it still only contain HB and Shaper or should it be a more mixed bunch?

List of all the cards

I don’t really see too much of a reason to re-tool C&C as much as there was a need to retool the Core set. The Core set is what everyone gets when they jump into the game, and it contained tools that were massively too powerful. They were cute and filled Core 2 in with cards from the first two cycles that were leaving, and I think one of the reasons they did this was because it was faster than trying to completely redesign cards to fit that experience. The stupid thing still took over a year to come out from when it was originally spoiled at Gencon last year, and that was with cards that already existed.

On the other side, C&C is just an expansion, and while it is generally one of the next things that a lot of players end up getting, I don’t really think anything within it needs re-tooling in the same way, because that can now be handled by the ban/restricted list. If, for example, Clone Chip becomes a huge problem, they can just move it from the restricted list and strait up ban it in a way that I think they really didn’t want to do in the Core 1 set, since that’s the literal first exposure new players are going to have.


Fun thread, not serious. :slight_smile:

But I would politely disagree there isn’t any problems with c&c. With your logic you could also argue core 2.0 wasn’t necessary because of the new ban/restricted list, they could just have banned the problematic cards for tournament play.

It is also a chance to have some cards survive rotation from lunar/SanSan.

My logic was that since C&C isn’t the core product, banning cards on it makes more sense, because banning cards that a first time player would buy makes no sense.

Anyhow, if it were to happen, I think it still makes sense to keep just the flavor of Haas vs Shaper, but that does go at odds with saving cards from the cycles, since a good 3/4ths of the card pool would miss out on cards saved. If you did save cards, it probably only a couple cards from each faction would get saved. I don’t think any of the IDs are problematic (maybe terrible, but not problematic), so I could see them staying. Most of the Lunar IDs I’m fine with losing. I’ll always have a soft spot for my buddy Blue Sun, but it’s not doing much without Oversight AI anyhow. Leela is also pretty sick, and I think she’s one of the better crims atm. The SanSan IDs… Geist is kinda cool, but also kinda plays his own game. Without his set of breakers, it’s fine for him to go, probably. Hayley’s another great ID, and she’s probably one of the only playable Shapers right now, next to Smoke. Who knows what else will be printed in the next 2 years, though. It’s probably okay with me to lose all the IDs, because that’s one of the points of rotation: to have things leave.

I guess that’s kinda where I stand on most of it. I like things leaving. There’s lots of cards that I use every day from these cycles, but I love the changes to deck building that it brings. C&C 2.0 can look just like C&C 1.0 =)

I’ll point out that Lunar+SanSan rotating out will be C&C and H&P…

This may just be a sign of my indifference to Shaper and HB, but as far as I’m concerned they can just replace Clone Chip with Earthrise and call it a day.

If they’re feeling ambitious, maybe they could also replace Exile or the Professor with Hayley, and swap out three of the dumber bioroid support cards for Chronos Project, Vanity Project, and NEXT Silver.

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Oh man, that just reminds me that they failed to save NEXT Bronze with the Core 2.0…

Yeah, NEXT ICE is super dead.


Isn’t that good? Next ICE was super strong against runners without ICE destruction.

Totally. Especially with the lowered runner econ, it’d be pretty nuts.

Was the NEXT suite one of the casualties of Dumbleforks?

You got NEXT opal now? So still a decent amount of ice.

Ofc, IDK isn’t very good