Yeah, I agree. Memory is a skill, and one put to use well in this game. If you can’t deal, there’s the door.
People play slow enough; I don’t need them taking notes.
I played a guy at Gencon who got up at the beginning of the match to take a phone call, 'cause his wife was bringing him lunch. I pleasantly sat there, but, I thought, if it went to time, I was flipping the table. Luckily, he was playing NBN, so it went fairly quickly.
You can still call slow play on them.
In the end it doesn’t really matter because I doubt they are going to change the rules on this. Note taking is pretty low on my wish list for this game anyway, but I do think it would be far from game breaking. I just think you were going a little over the top with that description above.
The anti scouting rules and the no concessions rules are completely unenforceable and asinine however. Those can go thank you very much.
Sadly, calling a judge for slow play seems like the ultimate dick move, plus, it’s not really enforceable. What are they going to say? ‘You have 90 seconds for your turn.’ Nothing in the floor rules, or lack thereof, for that.
They are leaving it up to the players to self-police. I will make a comment or two to my opponent, but, that usually just flusters them more, slowly them down.
Guess I should play NEH at Worlds. I loved RP, but, man, could the games be long.
I’d be happy for my opponent to shuffle my deck, assuming they didn’t abuse the cards. more shuffling is always good!
I’m always worried about going to time, but I’ve never actually gone to time when playing my RP deck. I corp fast, and once the runner is suitably demoralized, they play faster.
In league play my corp games have gone an hour thirty due to opponents slow play on occasion. I don’t glacier at tourneys for that reason. There’s no cause for them to go that long, but some players are just slow. Play a deck that doesn’t rush to the end game and that slow play will just extend past the allowed time because of every analytical tangent.
This is all fairly irrelevant… what if, instead of notes, every time I saw a card I sat there for 2 minutes saying the name of the card over and over, memorizing it?
Slow play is slow play, no matter the cause of it, and note taking is not inherently slow, just like memorization isn’t inherently slow. Either can be done slowly, or quickly, and it really has no bearing on the issue of whether note taking should be allowed.
This brings up another more relevant point though… the fact that there isn’t a system set in place to deal with these situations (i.e. slow play) when they arise. Wouldn’t it be nice if you could call over someone who has been trained to deal with these situations and get a concrete solution based on FFG’s own guidelines? Slow play is always somewhat subjective, but other game systems have concrete guidelines about how to deal with it occuring for the officially sanctioned judge staff of those games.
I haven’t noticed shuffling but I mostly play with my friends and we don’t do it, so maybe once I get into the tournament scene I’ll see it? It kind of sounds like the grunting problem in women’s tennis.
Shuffling is just a good way to keep your hand randomized so that you don’t bleed info to your opponent.
Shuffling can also be distracting and cause your opponent to make mistakes. It’s a mind game. There’s all kinds of jedi mind tricks that are used in competitive card games.
I don’t think many players compulsively shuffle as a mind game. I maintain that any behavior to distract your opponent should be considered poor sportsmanship.
As long as you are not being disruptive to the game, I see no issue with it. Competitive events have long had a mental game component to them in addition to the event itself.
If I weren’t shuffling my cards, I’d be tapping on the table or shaking my leg or doing some other unconscious physical bullshit that would annoy you.
I’m with you on this one, especially for Netrunner. Messing with people to get tells is pretty normal in poker play, and I don’t see why that shouldn’t be allowed in a game that involves so much bluffing and mind-games with hidden info.
Poker doesn’t rely on a friendly community to sustain itself. I know people who try to mess with opponents to get an edge, and it strikes me in two ways:
Do you really feel like your skill is lacking so much that you need to mess with me in order to win?
Do you really want me to finish our game pissed off and annoyed at you?
So far I have only met three people in the large bay area netrunner community that I wouldn’t want to play against again, but if I know they are a regular at a certain store, I am far less likely to go to a tournament there, and will find another LGS to attend. That takes business away from a local LGS, it makes for a hostile environment for other players, and that just sucks.
I will never try to please my opponent at all costs, but I will never do something intentionally malicious to try to throw them off their game. I urge everyone else to strive for the same… don’t make Netrunner a bad experience for your opponent. It just doesn’t improve the game.
I personally hate this kind of crap. Shuffling your hand to death, drumming your fingers, annoyed chuffing… that’s all bad enough, but actively screwing with your opponent is a bridge too far for me. My personal worst is the “guy that tries to rush your turn”. You know what I mean… The guy who fires off questions rapid-fire to throw you off mentally - “Ok, click one? Ok, run HQ? What next?” The guy that acts annoyed if your turn takes more than 3 seconds.
I also hate people that constantly ask you “How many cards in hand? How many credits?” just to throw you off your train of thought.
Also, the “arrogant secondary judge” guy is frustrating to deal with…
I shuffle my hand constantly; and I have the right to do so. If you’re going to run my hand; I am going to assure it’s randomized. If I want to put up a fake tell by shuffling my hand and try to bluff you into running it; I’m going to do so. It’s a valid strategy. It’s part of the game. I’m not going to ask you questions, I’m not going to mess with you; but if I want to start checking my ICE and flipping assets on my turn to fuck with you, that’s entitled as well. In short, I can handle my area however I want, I am not entitled to mess with yours. Asking amount of credits before rezzing a piece of ice is also legal tender.
Fair enough. The shwiff shwiff shwiff sound is just mildly annoying to me, that’s all. It comes from the fact that I started playing card games with the old Decipher Star Trek and Star Wars CCGs, and there was literally no need to shuffle your hand in those games because there weren’t any ways to get into your opponent’s hands or decks. I’m all for shuffling a hand before an access.
This is what I’m getting at… I’m OK with checking ICE and such. I’m not down with people coming over to my side of the board, either metaphorically or literally. I don’t even like it when people touch my cards, such as agendas and such… when I played 40k I hated it when people touched my models without permission, but that’s a “personal property” thing with me and I don’t usually say anything about it.
Being a jackass just to screw with me? I’m not cool with that.
I restless leg like a mofo (you can see it here: Netrunner with Scott - Cambridge, MA Regionals - Elimination Game 18 - YouTube). Iirion Clause while watching it afterward said he didn’t realize I was so nervous from watching me in person… i had to explain that I wasn’t… its just restless energy.
Sorry to all the viewers out there who get skeeved out!
Public information should be public and not just available on request, which reveals when you need the information, so I think asking for cards in hand/credits often matters even if you were playing against a robot. I don’t personally do it, but it is optimal game play. You shouldn’t be forced to leak information because of the way your opponent holds their cards.
That said, being mean just to get people annoyed isn’t fair play at all.