I’ve also posted it on ANCUR
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Great review!
Love that stuff! Thanks!
Reading through the Conditional Abilities section and the examples of when a trigger condition is met but the ability doesn’t trigger yet, I expected to next see examples of when an ability triggers but doesn’t resolve right away. I remember not realizing the difference between triggering and resolving. Could you give examples for that?
BTW is there a difference between “trigger an ability” on Bifrost Array and “resolve an ability” on 24/7 News Cycle?
@jakodrako While I understand the need and the usefullness of this to explain simultaneous effects in a clearer environnement, does CoreRules are wrong in this exerpt:
“In order to use a triggered ability a prerequisite must be met. This prerequisite is either a trigger cost that must be paid (paid ability) or a trigger condition that must be met (conditional ability). Once an ability is triggered, its effect is resolved immediately and can only be stopped by prevent or avoid effects.”
To me, 2 & 3 merges (that’s if the corerules are right).
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Also would be interested to read a primer on the order of resolution of abilities.
I’m playing AGOT currently, as I guess many Netrunners do now. There, all the effects of a single ability resolve simultaneously (except for odd cases that use the words “Then”, “instead”, “at the end”, and “if you win”).
I remember that in Netrunner there is some card that says “after you search R&D, put a card from HQ on the top of R&D”, and this effect can interject between “Search R&D” and “Shuffle R&D” effects of a single ability. That stuff is weird.
EDIT: Mumbad City Hall + Heritage Committee, I am being told that this interaction no longer works this way.
Comet triggers and starts resolving at different times (as explained by jako). I cannot think of any other example though.
BTW Comet says “after it resolves” while Tallie Perrault says “when it is trashed after resolving”. Can I play an event (say, Hedge Fund), trigger Comet, gain creds, resolve Comet to play Deja Vu, and get that same Hedge Fund back to hand? Or is it still hanging in the air and didn’t get trashed yet?
Hmm, to me, Comet’s trigger only set a second conditional.
So it would do (Phase 1) runner pays event cost) -> (1’) Comet meet trigger prereq -> (2’+3’) - solve comet, setting a conditional named ‘’ in the future -> (2+3) solve the event -> (1’’) “after the first one resolves” prereq is true -> (2’’+3’’) can play a second event -> (1’’’) runner pays card + event cost -> (2’’’+3’’’) event #2 effets.
I don’t understand the trouble here ?
You’re saying Comet resolves immediately after triggering and sets a delayed effect that will give the Runner an opportunity to play an event without spending a click sometime in the future. This explanation seems reasonable, I like it. Now, to convince jako…
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You don’t need this 2 then 3 dichotomy. I never used it and it worked fine with all ANR weirds effects so far.
Including Allele coming back stuff, syphon with dopplegangers, Street peddler stuff, this exemple of uninstall -> comet -> apocalypse, etc.
Effects exist once (1) prereq is met ok, regardless of activity of cards. That cover pretty much all ours needs, if you add simultaneous + nested + cascading rulings.
Unless I forgot things.
I dislikes that new “sometimes yes sometimes no” 2+3 dissections because the frontier is perfectly blurred there.
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Btw, when+if can also work in (1)->(2+3).
(1) when prereq is ok -> (2+3) set a conditional “if” in the future -> (1’) if prereq is ok -> (2’+3’) if effect resolve.
If the problem is ‘,’ position, then since there had allready problems with a missplaced ‘;’ in the weyland current door to door that is coming out soon, I don’t think ‘,’ position really are that would block this.
Like Joshua B.? Triggers at the start of turn, but the ability doesn’t fully resolve until the end of the turn.
Joshua B is more or less working the same as Comet ?
Aka a conditional that gives (Joshua B : effect, Comet : no effect) + set another conditional in the future ?
Joshua’s ability starts resolving right away, by giving you a click. It doesn’t finish resolving for some time though.
The problem with the word “resolve” is that sometimes it means “start resolving” (e.g. 24/4 News Cycle) and sometimes it means “finish resolving” (e.g. Comet).
The first time you play an event each turn, you may play another event (without spending a click) after the first one resolves.
Resolve the “when scored” ability on an agenda in your score area.
What exactly is the problem with this? Comet specifically tells you to wait until resolving is done. You shouldn’t point towards a word and not take the rest of the sentence into consideration.
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How many players do you think realize that you can Uninstall Comet or play Apocalypse and still get to play another event without spending a click?
Anyway, me and Syntax were just suggesting that jaco should merge #2 trigger and #3 resolve, recause separating them needlessly complicated the sequence.
Just as many that know that once you start a run with Sneakdoor Beta, you will get to access HQ instead of Archives regardless of whether or not Sneakdoor is trashed mid run. I’m failing to see how this is relevant to the definition of the word resolve, or why separating trigger and resolve would simply things. If anything, it removes the step that makes Comet and Sneakdoor work the way we’re describing: once the ability triggers, it exists independent of its source. It can resolve after the card (Comet, Sneakdoor) is inactive.
What does the word “Resolve” in the original post mean? Start resolving, or finish resolving? This ambiguity should at least be addressed in the article. Also it would be nice to mention that the resolution of an event is immediately followed by trashing that event, before reactions to the resolution can be triggered.
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It means"resolve" as a whole so start and solve and finish ?
The rules says there is no step 2 then step 3, those are the same to me. Nothing can make (2+3) triggered effect fizzle at this point (quoting core rules), but prevent or avoid abilities.
To me, not if you consider cards could have a prerequisite part, then an effect part which can be a list of many effect, and/or new conditional effects which can have again a second list of effects + new conditionals which can… Endlessly.
You pay sneakdoor, the effect is making you run on archives, and additionally set a conditional “if run is success then treat it like an hq run” (prehistoric wording but anyway this works as a replacement when the success run prereq #2 is true).
All is still working as normal ruling to this day, this was my mental schematics and never was contradicted.
I think this post has had a triggered effect on some people.
You could look at the three steps as:
- Am I triggered?
- Are my conditions satisfied?
- Fire.
I think it’s fair to say, with the current card pool, that steps 2 and 3 will occur atomically (Edit: this is not correct; see below posts); it is, for all intents and purposes, a single action that cannot be interrupted between 2 and 3 (anyone can feel free to correct that if they feel I’m wrong). But you always need to check the conditions before firing the ability (hopefully that’s trivially obvious). Since steps 2+3 are atomic, it shouldn’t matter if you separate them into 2 and 3 or 2+3, so are we really arguing about much here?
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