My all time favorite mtg card. God that would be a lovely netrunner card. Maybe it would be a Corp card though? I suppose we’re moving to imaginary cards if I say anything more.
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I think this card has a broad value. Early game especially in an aggro deck it has a massive tempo swing. You spend a turn drawing rather than advancing your board state. That allows crim more time to set up. It also has wider use late game as a saviour card. Worried about midseasons. Getting them to put all their cards back and shuffle (assuming you can trigger a Jackson) is huge.
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So I guess the real question is does this do enough to enable a criminal keyhole archetype?
Good splash for anarch to make your deck a tad more obnoxious.
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Keyhole Gabe was a thing back when Crim was good - you might double ice HQ against Gabe back then, and nothing punishes an open R&D like Keyhole.
You need something like 3x Test Run to reliably threaten t1 Keyhole, leaving you with only 2 inf (but spare tutoring/recursion). CBI Raid can buy you time if the initial onslaught fails, like it will do at some point today. Is it enough?
I’ve played alot of criminal and I don’t know if you can play keyhole the same way as you can other decks. Some of the lines of play are very different.
I think its a okay/good card but trying to stick it in a terminal ken deck is wrong. You are already having a hard time filling the slots. I think it would work best in @TheBigBoys deck.
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I think crim Keyhole goes all-in on HQ pressure, then uses Keyhole as a finisher or more likely when the corp can’t protect R&D for a turn or two.
i think it’ll be easier for anarch Keyhole, and not just because anarch is so good right now, but because this kind of card (CBI Raid) seems like a very anarch kind of thing to do
plus it’ll be great with Medium digs as well
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Going back through the annals of NetrunnerDB history, there have been a good number of popular decks over the years that have leveraged Keyhole. Pretty much, based on a cursory read, as a one-of, without any program tutoring.
This so much. I dunno why there would be a solid reason to leverage Keyhole in a Crim shell.
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But anarchs already have wanton destruction
Anarchs have Hemoraghe, Gravedigger, could also play Bhagat, Fear the mass at the end of Mumbad, plus the obvious Keyhole/Medium/DLR. Hacktivist meeting. Things like That.
Shapper have False lead/Crescentus, Ankusa at the end of Mumbad + Maya (+Jesminder = autoinclude ?) + lots of R&D multiaccess.
Criminels have…well, HQ-I. This is not really great infaction. Expert schedule analyser within Gabe, maybe.
It’s a nice card for Adam (his free “HQI”), Apex (Apoc), Sunny (Global Sec Clearance).
I think that’s fair if you go all in on an HQ smashing idea, but I’m curious about Keyhole in a Crim shell. Jesminder guys were saying, it’s really cool to have an alternative central server pressure point, maybe the same hold’s true here, and if so, how can we best leverage that in criminal? I think if that’s the idea, then this card could be the dog’s bollocks.
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I agree with you, this could fuel a HQ+remote lock solution.
But the only problem is, as of today, R&D/optional remote lock is still the king, because, well, because of a lot of things.
Somebody on our French forums said it could have been nice that the runner have choose the R&D order, to make it a HQ Indexing and Id agree. I’d say it’s too expensive too when you compare to Indexing, or even acces trading runs. Like 1/2c too expensive. Not sure this 3c run is Esher/Retrun tiers.
I’m not saying the card is crap, and I like it, but it can’t go in many decks, only in kind of special decks and the card suffers of those 0c hq syphon runs autoincludes in-faction. It is enabled by HQIs more than Legworks, so it really cost too much.
That is sad, it could have been better, but enable lots of new decks.
Would have made it 2c, runner choose and +1inf if I were a tester there.
The only criminal card this directly improves is Gorman Drip. So that’s food for thought.
The only anarch card this directly improves is hemmorhage. It’s difficult to imagine actually achieving hand-lock though.
It seems you’d be just as likely to miss an agenda using keyhole after using this card as you would keyholing without. The benefit doesn’t feel very tangible. Why attempt to spend all that influence so you might be able to stop a combo when you can already stop it by taking away their money, being so rich they can’t source/midseasons you and/or their weak ICE is trivial, include plascrete influence free?
in a culture where the word ‘tempo’ gets tossed around as this really important thing the initial reaction to this card should be that it is good. You toss (ideally) 5 of their cards onto RnD so that they can engage in the mastubatory process of spending a turn drawing back what they already had. It’s a proactive virus wipe where instead of losing counters you lose credits. The most prohibitive aspect of the card is it’s cost. So this cards appears to slot best in Ken or Gabe.
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How much is a turn worth to the runner?
I think it’s worth a lot when you have a lot of drippy effects like Wyldside and Aesop and Stealth credits, and barely anything if you’re loading Kati Jones and drawing cards.
About one more click than the corp’s turn.
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Good call.
I’m not sure 3 credits, a click and a card is worth a turn. It’s really borderline. That doesn’t bode well for this card. But maybe it can be made better by building the right deck.
I think if you try to directly “trade” credits, clicks and cards in some theoretical bubble, you might miss some of the potential of the card.
Cards like Caprice Nisei are great partly because they allow you to say, “I don’t care how the money battle is going, I’m going to force clicks to matter more.” Similarly the threat of SEA Source/Midseasons Replacement followed by Scorched Earth allows the Corp to force the Runner to compete on credits even if they are on top everywhere else in the game.
Even if it costs a lot of credits to get into HQ, this card allows the Runner to turn a pile of credits into a click/tempo advantage. Not only does it trade resource types, but it forces the opponent’s hand in terms of the ground they have to fight on. That seems like it ought to have the potential to be very disruptive in the right place.
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Are people seeing this as a ‘first click’ or a ‘last click’ kind of card? How much information are you willing to give to the corp before they get their hand back?
If the corp was flooded, you would have been better off with a Legwork, or even just single accessing.
In my mind, the Timewalk bonus that you get from this is pretty marginal. What is it that Criminals are going to do with this turn? Since the corp gets to choose the order that things go back onto R&D, it’s unlikely that you’ll get any advantage by hitting HQ or R&D the next turn. Yes, it gives you time to money-up if there’s a asset/upgrade you need to trash, but if you’re hoping to get into that unchecked remote the next turn the corp still has the choice to advance/score rather than draw back up, and if they had a punitive or some other punishing card in hand they’re going to draw that right back anyway.
Without some way to force a shuffle (Keyhole) or manipulate what you find on R&D (Maya?), this seems like a pretty straightforward trade of the 3-credits + cost to get into HQ vs the 2-3 extra clicks it costs the corp to get their hand back.
Disruptive? Possibly. But not as much as a Wanton, or even an HQI/Imp. This doesn’t feel like it get Crim much further in their Pressure-HQ strategy.
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What you do with it is establish your advantage as much as possible. Whatever that means for your deck.
The shuffle with keyhole will tumble into a never-ending debate over the possibility of helping or hurting the corp by offering them new cards. I wouldn’t engage in it unless you feel your fingers need strengthening.