Interesting! What did you put in those slots? R&DI? Test Run?
If Sneaky can’t fork the thread for whatever reason, we can always just make a new one, summarize the discussion so far, and post our latest lists.
I needed one slot in order to split the Siphon into two Shutdowns, and used the second slot to add a Same Old Thing, which now works great with Indexing, Tinkering, Account Siphon, and Emergency Shutdown.
Oh, and I cut the Deus X. In the dozens upon dozens of games I’ve ever played this deck’s predecessors, I’ve never used it. Perhaps that’ll change after Jinteki’s box, but right now I’d never use a SMC to fetch it.
So my current deck is as follows:
Mac of all Trades (45 cards)
Kate “Mac” McCaffrey: Digital Tinker
Event (19)
1 Account Siphon
3 Diesel
3 Dirty Laundry
2 Emergency Shutdown
3 Indexing
2 Quality Time
3 Sure Gamble
2 Tinkering
Hardware (7)
2 Akamatsu Mem Chip
3 Clone Chip
2 Plascrete Carapace
Resource (6)
2 Armitage Codebusting
2 Kati Jones
2 Same Old Thing
Icebreaker (7)
1 Atman
1 Corroder
2 Cyber-Cypher
1 Mimic
2 Sharpshooter
Program (6)
2 Datasucker
1 Parasite
3 Self-modifying Code
1 Like
Forked per request. (Good call btw)
3 Likes
Since I plan on sticking with two Siphons at least for now, I’ll try cutting one Atman and one Armitage for 2x SOT.
I actually see Jinteki - a PE player won the SC I played in last Sat, and I think he’ll be at the one this Sat as well. That said, I’m not sure Deus X is needed even in the PE matchup - I still won comfortably after taking 2 brain damage from Cerebral Overwriter. I had DX on the board, but never needed it. Net Shield would have been more helpful, but still not necessary. DX was moderately useful against Neural Katana, but that was before dropping Femme for Mimic, not to mention adding Tinkering. And hell, sometimes I just draw to 6 and run right through it.
The difference between R&D Interface and Keyhole is that you can easily tutor for Keyhole when an opportunity presents itself.
I was running the below deck with Keyhole came out and it. It’s essentially an Atman deck with -1 Desperado +1 Keyhole. You could also run 3x Grimoire as well and cut back on some of the memory chips.
Normally, it plays like an Atman deck, and many times you just win off Atman being a strong Archetype. Sometimes you see an opportunity where RnD is available for you to pound with Keyhole for a turn, and you take it.
Generally I’d devote more attention to HQ and any remotes that were setup to get the corp to add additional ice away from RnD. I’d feel out RnD just to get ice rezzed but not pressure it too much, and without an RnD interface out give the corp little reason to over extend there.
Then with a Clone Chip + SMC out and some datasucker counters you can do a lot. You can easily bring out a Keyhole, clear a piece of ice with Parasite + Datasucker and hit RnD for a turn. Seeing 9 cards, trashing 3, and still being able to run archives. This usually nets you a few points and puts the corp in a position where they need to deal with your keyhole immediately. If they can’t you can close the game out quickly.
You don’t always play to this, but you at least are able to recognize the opportunity and take advantage when it is there.
I think Sneakdoor plays the same role. I’ve seen so many people (myself included) get blown out by Sneakdoor in a shaper build. You don’t play it every game but occasionally you pull it out and it will help win a game that may have otherwise been lost.
###Manhole (45 cards)
Event (14)
- 3 Diesel
- 3 Dirty Laundry
- 1 Escher
- 2 Scavenge
- 3 Sure Gamble
- 2 Test Run
Hardware (9)
- 2 Akamatsu Mem Chip
- 3 Clone Chip
- 2 Desperado ••••• •
- 2 Plascrete Carapace
Resource (9)
Icebreaker (5)
- 3 Atman
- 1 Femme Fatale •
- 1 Sharpshooter
Program (8)
- 3 Datasucker •••
- 1 Keyhole •••
- 1 Parasite ••
- 3 Self-modifying Code
1 Like
What sort of advantage does Keyhole offer over Indexing though? I feel as though the latter is cheaper, has fewer restrictions, and doesn’t cost influence with the only downside being that it doesn’t trash combo pieces.
Very interesting deck after some changes. Can’t wait to test it out
1 Like
Indexing is great, can’t argue there. Keyhole has some differences. Whether they are worth it, it’s hard to say.
Keyhole:
- Can be tutored for.
- Never goes away so it must be dealt with quickly or it will end the game.
- Trashes any card for free, not just combo pieces. Trash ice, econ, jacksons, whatever the corp needs most.
- Can see potentially more cards so there’s a higher upside. Usually with Indexing you run at least 2 times. So that’s two runs for 1 agenda out of 5 cards. With Keyhole you run twice, see 6 cards (of course after shuffle). So you could pull two agendas, but more than likely at least one + another trash, which makes further runs on RnD even more profitable.
Cost, memory, and influence are all negatives. So it depends on the deck.
I think writing the card off as bad in Shaper is a bit much. There’s nothing that can close out games as fast as Keyhole when RnD is accessible.
Maker’s Eye.
I dunno, I do my best to keep an open mind when deckbuilding, but with runners my focus is always to shore up weaknesses before refining my strengths. Incorporating Keyhole with the faction that has the most R&D pressure just seems wasteful to me (plus everyone knows to protect R&D heavily against Shapers). I see why it’s so appealing a splash in Criminals, but I think there are better aggression/subterfuge options out there.
Not to be dismissive though, my apologies. I’ll be certain to try it; it just doesn’t suit the manner in which I deckbuild. I’m a deckbuilder first and player second, and I spend at least two hours a day merely building, tweaking, and testing draws, so I’m a bit neurotic when it comes to certain things.
2 Likes
I adore Keyhole, but I didn’t find that the benfits outweighed the drawbacks. Even with a third Akamatsu, the 2MU really hurts, and everyone ices R&D the moment they see I’m a Shaper.
I put in 2x SOT, but haven’t gotten in a game with the new list. I’m keeping the Deus X for now, because I haven’t played a ton of games against HB and I’m somewhat concerned about their large ice. I’d much rather break Heimdalls on a non-Cyphered server with DX than Corroder. And having it in my stack for a surprise Viktor also seems like it could be useful. If I play more HB and find it doesn’t contribute, I’ll cut it then.
Still absolutely loving the deck. Fast and flexible. No server is safe with SMC and Clone Chip on the board.
1 Like
I foresee a myriad of frustrated players taking to the forums once Will O’ the Wisp is released, and this deck (or Anarchs if they receive enough help in time) will be the solution. WOTW, if it accomplishes what it intends to do, will wreck Criminals and big-rig Shapers. All this type of deck would have to do is throw in a couple Test Runs.
The one deck archetype I have trouble with (I suspect it’s a weakness of my running skills rather than my deck itself) is HB/Weyland glacier builds, especially those with Ash. Caprice and other upgrades will exacerbate this problem, and for this reason I’m considering swapping an ES for a Quest Complete. One All-Nighter would allow me to get a second use with SOT. Still, I’d hate to take up the deckspace for such narrow applications, so for now I guess I’ll wait and see.
I see a lot of Weyland/HB Glacier and was going to bring this up about your second decklist—I find Deus X indispensible against Big Bioroids and the loss of a second Atman is scary too. If you don’t face those decktypes often then no biggie :).
I swapped some stuff around in my CT blitz-style deck to get an ES in there and it is money.
I might try rebuilding it along the lines of your OP Kate and go from there. Thanks for the discussion in this thread :).
I went 3-1 again with it at an SC yesterday. I kept the third Armitage because I was concerned about losing them to Jinteki net damage, but midway through the first game against a PE player, I realized that Lysander was absolutely right. After the tournament I immediately revised my list to cut the third Armitage and add the second SOT.
My next tweak will be to test -1 Indexing, +1 Escher. With 2x SOT, the third Indexing may not be as important anymore, and I saw Kit players wreak havoc with singleton Cyber-Cypher + Escher yesterday – including the winner. Eschering code gates onto whatever server I have Cyber-Cyphered seems like an excellent play. It may not be as good in this deck, but I think it’s worth experimenting with as a one-of since there will usually be quite a bit of rezzed ice on the board.
I went 3-1 on the day with Kate and am still very happy with the deck. I beat one PE player with no cards in my stack and one card – a Dirty Laundry – left in my grip. Deus X + Clone Chips on the board were very helpful there!
(Unfortunately I went 2-2 with TWIY*, including a 2-0 timed loss against the aforementioned Jinteki player since that game took 55 minutes, which left me at 5-3 on the day, 10 prestige, and out of the top 8.)
1 Like
Let me know how Escher goes. I had found that anything I wanted moved I could just Parasite or Shutdown, but that was some time ago so I’m interested in your take on it.
Also, I faced far more HB and Jinteki this past week, and I concede that Deus X needs to stay in. I was much more glad having it when I needed it than sad when I drew it and didn’t want it. I always trash it when I draw it so that I can CC it anyways.
Caprice and Ash continue to give me trouble. Caprice on R&D basically means I have no choice but to just click Kati a ton then hammer a remote as soon as something starts to be advanced. The nice thing about this deck is that no advanceable trap is curtains, since I can negate net damage and recur programs.
I really don’t want to, but I’m starting to consider Infiltration or Quest Complete. Infiltration might not be a bad addition, but I’m not seeing much to cut aside from SOT.
Alright, just made a ton of tweaks and I like it overall but not sure how to make it better.
-2 Emergency Shutdown, +1 Account Siphon +1 Escher
You’re right about Escher. Parasite only works on small to med ice, and I wanted Shutdowns solely against Weyland with Oversight AI or big ice HB. Problem is that they’d re-rez the ice I really don’t want to break. Siphon provides more money and Escher makes it so that I won’t ever have to deal with certain ice.
-1 SOT, +1 Infiltration
Infiltration enables the opportunity to confirm the contents of a server so that I don’t waste a ton of money only to hit a trap. The trap isn’t as concerning to me as the cost to get in. As you’ve seen, this deck’s greatest weakness is a corp that can slow you down to a crawl, be it Jinteki with a ton of blips of net damage, or an HB glacier.
So here’s my current deck:
Katman Blitz
Kate “Mac” McCaffrey: Digital Tinker (Core Set)
Event (19)
2x Account Siphon (Core Set) ••••• •••
3x Diesel (Core Set)
3x Dirty Laundry (Creation and Control)
1x Escher (Creation and Control)
2x Indexing (Future Proof)
1x Infiltration (Core Set)
2x Quality Time (Humanity’s Shadow)
3x Sure Gamble (Core Set)
2x Tinkering (Core Set)
Hardware (7)
2x Akamatsu Mem Chip (Core Set)
3x Clone Chip (Creation and Control)
2x Plascrete Carapace (What Lies Ahead)
Resource (5)
2x Armitage Codebusting (Core Set)
2x Kati Jones (Humanity’s Shadow)
1x Same Old Thing (Creation and Control)
Icebreaker (8)
1x Atman (Creation and Control)
1x Corroder (Core Set) ••
2x Cyber-Cypher (Creation and Control)
1x Deus X (A Study in Static)
1x Mimic (Core Set) •
2x Sharpshooter (True Colors)
Program (6)
2x Datasucker (Core Set) ••
1x Parasite (Core Set) ••
3x Self-modifying Code (Creation and Control)
Here’s my question to you to consider when testing Escher: do we need Tinkering now? Escher fulfills its late-game role of keeping code gates on the appropriate server. OTOH it has early game utility and surprise factor while you complete your rig. I ask because it’d be really nice to have a second SOT. Otherwise there’s not much to cut unless I get rid of a Dirty Laundry or Mem Chip or something.
I have a few thoughts.
First, I’d actually been thinking that cutting one Tinkering might be OK if the Escher worked out. So I’m definitely open to that, which frees up a slot for Infiltration while keeping 2x SOT.
Second, I actually don’t have trouble winning against Jinteki – I just have trouble finishing two games in timed rounds when a Jinteki player with a slow deck is also playing it slowly, even though my other deck is TWIY*. I find I can win, although I usually don’t have a lot left in my stack when I do. I have yet to lose to a Jinteki player (small sample size alert! 4-0). But I do agree that HB’s big ice presents a problem.
I’ve noticed that it’s been four or five games since I’ve installed the Parasite, but it’s probably still worth keeping around for SMC / Datasucker shenanigans.
I’ll be testing Escher next week and will report back on the Tinkering / Escher / Infiltration balance. Unfortunately I can’t play on OCTGN until I figure out what’s wrong with my gaming PC and get it fixed – the solutions to play OCTGN on Macs don’t seem to work for my laptop.
I’m a latecomer to the discussion, so please excuse me if I’m being stupid now:
What’s Siphon’s purpose in this deck? To me it doesn’t feel like it’s money-making, more like HQ pressure. I’m wondering whether you can’t achieve that goal better (like, Nerve Agent or HQ interfaces)while at the same time actually opening up influence to handle the big ICE problem (be they Inside Jobs, Stimhacks, Femmes or other solutions).
It’s a fair question. I’m actually planning to swap one for a couple Legwork (H&P Makers Eye for HQ).
In the context of this deck’s iteration, it serves two purposes (that I can think of; feel free to assist Ajar).
The first is to force the corp to expend resources icing up HQ. Sometimes he rezzes ice he wouldn’t have otherwise to defend against it, allowing me to attack elsewhere.
The second purpose is that it’s debilitating if it isn’t expected, primarily against NBN and Jinteki. I typically don’t use it against Weyland or HB since it isn’t cost effective to do so.
So yeah long story short, it’s another attack vector to spread the corp more thinly. Its economic benefit keeps the rig running for quite a while. I look forward to testing Legwork/Inside Job when H&P is released.
Nerve Agent, Legwork, and other HQ multiaccess cards are a very different form of HQ pressure than Siphon. Imp is the other card I considered for the Siphon slot, but the deck is already tight on MU. Also, Imp competes for Clone Chips with Sharpshooter, Parasite, and Deus X.
I think the Siphon slot needs to be occupied by a card that actively deprives the Corp of a resource, which is why I originally tried Keyhole there before settling on Siphon. Without that, I don’t think the deck does enough to interfere with the Corp’s plans – it’s very good at getting where it wants to go, but IMO it needs to be able to inflict some pain as well. If Siphon is replaced with something like Imp, then I think Escher and maybe Legwork or some other form of HQ pressure would become even more important to make sure we’re still pressuring multiple centrals.
I’d love to have a Stimhack for that one turn where there’s a 5/3 with two advancement counters behind a Tollbooth in a remote… but I was actually thinking of cutting one Datasucker for that, rather than cramping my Siphon style.