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Keystone 2.0 - Winning Decklist (Blue Sun) Discussion wanted!


#1

Hello everyone! Long time reader, finally made an account here. I have been working with a deck I’m calling Keystone (which according to netrunnerDB, at least 26 of you have heard of :P), and have put my previous Keystone deck design to the Blue Sun identity. Yesterday at a store tournament in Dayton, Ohio (Epic Loot Games and Comics), I placed first with this deck (runner side, a Cache Noise variant), total attendance being 12 players. A modest victory, yes, but I’m not here to gloat. I have been playing Weyland since Creation and Control almost exclusively, and I feel so strongly about the possibilities for Weyland in the meta we are faced with now, that I’m interested in generating discussion about my decklist and playstyle with other players, preferably other Weyland players, but all players are welcome. Outside opinion on Weyland is, and always has been, slanted, because they do not play like ETF, RP, or NBN, so those comparisons have always been skewed (although honestly, mostly deserved, until recently).

Here is the link to NetrunnerDB, where you will find the decklist and a rather long write-up of the card choices, strategy, strengths, weaknesses, and its viability in the current RP/NEH dominated scene. I look forward to some discussion of possibilities for this archetype moving forward into OaC!

http://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/10206/tournament-winning-decklist-keystone-v2-0

-DonTankMeBro (Reddit, BGG, Stimhack)
-ItJustGotRielle (OCTGN)


#2

So, I like the deck list. I’ve been running similar in a couple different ID’s.

What I’m unclear on is what archetype are you clining to have created? There doesn’t seem to be too much out of the norm.


#3

I have to say I love the detailed explanations you give along with your decks! Thanks for all the hard work. :smile:


#4

Thanks for the comment! I don’t mean to usurp any players who used decks similar to mine who may have build with and had success with such a deck. Based on decks archived in NetrunnerDB, I had found at the time of my winning my first tournament with the GRNDL version of Keystone, that no one had posted a winning decklist to NRDB that used Geothermal Fracking, Power Shutdown, and a heavier than usual amount of program-trashing ice, without using their splash on Snares and playing False Lead.

My original design was to play this style in GRNDL, using the 10 credits as an early springboard to rush forward, trashing integral pieces of the runners rig while still threatening flatline without Snares. Supermodernism features three things; False Lead, Snare, and Anonymous Tip, whereas my deck used none of these things and in fact plays quite different than the decklist Mr. Presley published. Here is the link to the original Keystone if you’re interested in more explanation: http://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/7793/store-tournament-winner-dayton-oh-keystone


#5

“Creator of archetype X” isn’t a claimed title, it’s a bestowed one. Just sayin’ :stuck_out_tongue:


#6

I have edited the post to satisfy the masses. Thank you for contributing to the discussion.


#7

OK - now that I’m at an actual computer rather than a cell phone, I can contribute in a more meaningful way.

First, a disclaimer: Up and Over is still a rather new datapack for me, so I’m still in the “why the hell would they print a card like this” stage of evaluation as far as Blue Sun is concerned. Thus, I’m probably seeing things in a more negative light than I will in a couple months.

Now, a small rant: I strongly believe printing BS in its current form was a mistake. At the very least it should have 12 inf, maybe even 10 (and I’m saying as a person who thinks GRNDL should have had 12). As it is now, it’s ridiculously powerful and without meaningful weaknesses compared to the other Weyland IDs and probably even other IDs - the closest comparison here is NEH, which we already know is stupidly overpowered in a not-at-all-good kind of way. The amount of hard counters, abusive applications, recovery tools and ways to correct your own stupid gameplay mistakes that you get rolled into one tidy package is just… hard to stomach for me. I feel like the identity’s ability (henceforth referred to as “BS BS”) is corping on easy mode, to the degree where, if you follow a basic pattern of usability, you can throw almost anything into your deck and reasonably expect to do well.

So… yeah. With that out of the way, here are my thoughts on your particular list:

  • I feel like not playing Hive is a mistake. It’s a completely overpowering early-game piece that’s great both for central defense and rushing agendas. Its downside is completely mitigated by BS BS, as you bounce it back to hand once it’s lost (almost) all of its subs, get your money back and just pitch the dead card.

  • On the one hand you note how hard it is for Weyland to score their 3-pointers, on the other you built your deck in such a fashion as to require gratuitious Atlas counter usage. Some choices are outright motivated by the vision/fantasy of having unlimited Atlas counters at your disposal, like the one-of Midseason as a tag delivery mechanism (and the subsequent Information Overload, which is literally only useful if you get Midseason to connect for a lot). There’s probably something about consistency and performance in the average case hidden in there somewhere.

  • You seem to be super-reliant on Oversight AI - both for economy, and for early agenda rushing (let’s face it, those two are often the same thing, in Weyland’s world). If you don’t get it, you’re stuck with only 6 really rezzable pieces of ICE (all of which are super-vulnerable to just about anything) and just 3 non-agenda econ cards.

  • On the note of economic cards, one of the best features of BS is on-demand Restructuring. Targeted Marketing is cute, but a) costs influence b) is pretty conditional as a 1-of c) is a current, so even if it gets played, it might not stick around for long in a deck with 12 agendas. Restructure is a viable alternative here.

  • While Hades Fragment is certainly decent in any deck with shuffle and tutoring ability (although my earlier point about Atlas counters remains), I’d consider running Eden Fragment instead. BS is the one identity where you’re virtually guaranteed to use its benefit a lot, even if you score it after having built up servers. Of course, Hades is still a good meta call vs. Noise (if you manage to get it scored).

  • And a final nitpick - in your write-up, most calculations seem to ignore the fact you might well have a ton of BP.

Overall, the list strikes me as a deck that’s built with the best case in mind. Thinking more about the various ways things can go wrong, and then adjusting deckbuilding choices to account for them might be a good way to solidify the list.


#8

I think I’m starting to agree with this. When I first saw it, I was solidly in the “finally, some weyland love” camp, but having put in some games, WOW. You don’t have to get fancy at all to win with BS.

I also agree with you on some other points, I think over-estimating the availability of atlas counters is an easy trap for any weyland deck, and BP is actually not a great fit for Blue Sun in particular, as the one Weyland ID that can actually Tax.


#9

At least it has a prebuilt appropriate acronym!


#10

The biggest thing that royally pisses me off about BS is that it turns off all Caissa. Like, completely to the point of being an auto-loss match-up for Caissa decks. It’s like printing an identity that would say the runner’s cards can never get more than one virus counter per turn.

It becomes even worse once you combine Blue Sun with the previous “fuck you, anarch” card, as you’ve just taken away the one actual in-faction way of dealing with it.

(I am going to track down and brutally murder anyone who mentions Force of Nature now)

I mean, I get it that the card pool needs introducing corp cards that handle ubiqutuous runner tricks, but can’t we please get some variety in that regard? Like, preferrably a piece of ICE forbidding mid-run installs on that same server, a piece that can’t be de-rezzed, or another (actually playable) un-bypassable one?


#11

I can attest to this.

I played against BS with my Quetzal Caissa last night. It was rough. There was nothing I could do. My deck relies on early denial (Siphon + Vamp) followed by Caissa pressure (Rook + Knight, for anything that is out of Parasite range). Rook is my deck’s MVP, and it’s a dead draw against BS.

Early game went well, as it should, but BS can recover from econ denial better than anyone. Still, I would have had a chance if my Caissa’s hadn’t been useless. In a deck without any traditional breaker suite (see: 1 Yog and 1 Mimic), the match-up was essentially an auto-loss. I don’t mind silver bullet cards, but BS is almost a silver bullet ID, which probably isn’t a healthy thing for the meta.

It sucks because Caissa is one of the more interactive, engaging decks to play with and against, and BS just says,

NO.

Let’s hope we see an Anarch card that penalizes Corp/rewards Runner for cards returned to HQ in Order & Chaos! (would synergize with Leela too)


#12

Personally, I’m hoping for a resource saying “Ice hosting caissa cannot be trashed or returned to HQ”, in a sort of parallel to what Fester is doing for virii.


#13

I think Blue Sun just upsets Anarch in general. All their toys are just sad about ICE that can shake off stuff that’s hosted on them. I guess there will be some help in Order and Chaos. While BS is flavour of the month, I’m very nervous about building decks with Red IDs.


#14

Agreed. I feel like all the Anarch testing I did since Lunar began was a big waste of time. Lotus Field and BS, and especially together, are such a bitch to deal with that running Anarch in a big tournament is a huge gamble. Why risk it when I can hop back on the comfy Andy wagon?


#15

Agreed that it’s a shame caissa are basically pushed out of the meta. On the other hand, I don’t think it pushes anarch entirely out. Among the existing top runner decks, noise is the worst matchup for blue sun in my experience.

I think blue sun’s win rate is somewhat inflated at the moment as runners haven’t adapted to deal with it yet – pack 2 plascretes, a 3rd copy of d4v1d, some emergency shutdowns, splash the first copy of d4v1d in shaper, etc. It is a lot easier to pack hate for oversight AI than it is for astroscript.

The problem is not the identity ability in its own right. The problem is that it exists in a metagame where runner decks are already struggling to cope with 17-influence NBN (and that its influence is pushed enough that people will want to play it instead of NBN), stretching the runners too thin. If NEH didn’t exist, and blue sun had 10 influence, I think we would have a balanced metagame.


#16

Hey man, it’s like a Zule, but way better against Midway decks.

Anyway, as a lover of the chess suite (when will we get more chess cards, by the way?) I disagree, sort of. I think it’s fine for a dedicated Caïssa deck to have a really bad match-up (and Blue Sun is a really rough match-up)—if it works well in general. My problem with the chess suite is that it’s just not quite there yet, in any match-up. It needs some lubing up, I think! It’s just a little bit too click-intensive, especially if you want to do the whole Pawn thing.

I can still win against Blue Sun, but that’s thanks to stuff like Stimhack and David (both of which are really good cards, anyway).


#17

As for the deck itself… I like that people have been experimenting with hostile takeover / program-trashing (whether supermodernism or uncorrodable) builds. 1-of bullet cards like elizabeth mills, taurus, and shattered remains, which I would not run in glacier, seem pretty good here. On the other hand, I don’t like biotic labor and information overload, as they’re dependent on a LOT of other moving parts coming together just right. I would rather have tollbooths or snares with that 6 influence.

I can see the value in midseasons, but I think as people adapt to blue sun, plascrete will be the hate card of choice far more than decoy or NACH. Archived memories seems like a better choice, letting you recur SEA for multiple tags, scorch to reach through plascrete (against tag-me runners), or just get more oversights.


#18

I think this is all pendulum stuff. We’re at a corp high right now or reaching it. Lukas said somewhere this cycle was pumping corp interests. And runner has been strong until this since the beginning of the game.

Are these identities strong? YES. Unquestionably so, but given time I think we can expect balance to return to the game. And then probably shift off in the runner’s favor again for a while. And back and forth.

In a way its good for the game. It gives everyone a chance to play each side well and forces people to rethink the way they play to get even better. Before the bar to being a good runner was lower, now we all have to think about how to get better.

But aside from pendulumn stuff, this hysteria seems like the hysteria we had about atman, nisei, etc. Every good card makes waves. I assume we’ll eventually have tools or experience that this will look like an over reaction; even if it really is tough now.


#19

Maybe the whole point of this cycle was to make Anarchs play Force of Nature.


#20

itinerant protesters perhaps.