Played this earlier and got absolutely hosed by Quetzal/e3/d4v1d due to reliance on OAI and scored agendas for econ.
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Given the nature of the ID (spend money on their turn and get it back on yours), I don’t see the advantage in not running a flat-line threat - even if it isn’t your main strategy. I don’t think the flat-threat needs to be scorch. Punitive in a glacier build is viable, influence free and takes up 3 deck slots (4-5 if you include some form of hardware destruction, which might not be a bad call anyway considering E3 and PVP).
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How about something like this? It should be able to threaten the Punitive kill as well as be able to score the 3 pt agendas with Mushin backed up by Off the Grid. Next turn you can bounce Off the Grid and score your agenda. Not sure about whether 3x Cleaners and 1 Priority Req is better than a 2/2 split. The fact that you only need 2 clicks in your scoring turn means you can slap down ice to get value from your Priority Req which is nice. At the same time, Cleaners is important to extend the flatline threat for longer.
Or maybe I can go even further and go with 3 PR, 3 Cleaners and 1 Atlas, which gives room for more ice?
Identity: Blue Sun : Powering the Future
Cards: 49 / 45
Agenda points: 20 / 20
Influence: 15 / 15
Agenda (8)
1x NAPD Contract
1x Priority Requisition
3x Project Atlas
3x The Cleaners
Asset (3)
3x Jackson Howard ●●●
Ice (15)
3x Caduceus
3x Curtain Wall
3x Enigma
3x Hadrians Wall
3x Hive
Operation (18)
3x Archived Memories ●●●●●●
3x Hedge Fund
3x Mushin No Shin ●●●●●●
3x Oversight AI
3x Punitive Counterstrike
3x Restructure
Upgrade (5)
3x Crisium Grid
2x Off the Grid
8 Likes
Man, that’s an awesome build. Definitely makes me want to try it, which is more than I can say for most other BS builds.
One thing though, I’d try to fit the third Off the Grid in here, seems pretty critical. And yeah, going down to 1 Atlas might be worth it for that purpose.
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As for the deck itself… I have a similar deck but the tag engine is based on Data Raven ice. In my opinion it has some advantages over SEA source:
- Data Raven acts as ETR for many runners, specially in Blue Sun where everybody is expecting a scorched combo
- If runner goes through, it would become a SEA source every run (tagging or spending runners economy)
- When a counter is placed, you can create a 3 scorched combo (you save a click for SEA)
Additionally, in this deck, femme fatale is not a challenge.
My Blue Sun deck, any suggestion is welcome!
http://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/10446/sol-azul-ardiente-v3
Hot damn. Mushin no shin and off the grid. That’s brilliant.
3 Likes
Yeah, the second it arrives in Australia I’ll sleeve this up and try it out in league 
I like going down to 1 Atlas and putting the 3rd Grid in. It’s not really about needing more Grids, but wanting to have them earlier so I can score earlier.
3 Likes
Just looking at that and thinking of my previous experiences with Blue Sun deck building, you might want to go -1 Curtain Wall - 1 Hadrian’s Wall and maybe +2 Changeling, or something like +1 Changeling +1 Taurus, depending on preference. The huge ice is awesome, and combos like crazy with OAI, but Emergency Shutdown becomes a nightmare if you ever have to hard rez that ice, and also shuts down your OAI if played on it as well. Also, I don’t know how many Quetzal decks you face, but if she gets out an E3, she basically blanks your OAI card entirely, which shuts down a large part of the economy.
Also, I found using a Government Contracts over the Priority Requisition to be a beneficial change for my deck. If I get the agenda as the last agenda before I win, obviously it doesn’t matter which it is. If I get it as the first agenda, PR can get me from usually 5-14 credits, depending on ice ran in the deck and what ice I was able to get on the field. However, this deck is probably going to be clicking for credits a LOT, and being able to do so at double the rate is mighty fine. However, this was for my deck, which I already stated runs slightly less high-end ice, so maybe PR would be a better fit in this one. Just throwing it out as something to consider!
Fun looking deck, though! I’m running a 3x Scorch 3x Punative deck. It’s fun, but can occasionally get cloggy hands if the game goes on too long. I’ll have to throw yours together and try out the differences!
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I do have some misgivings including 3 Hadrians and 3 Curtain Wall. However, I do have 3 Hedge and 3 Restructure so I’m not exactly relying solely on Oversight for money like with my previous builds. I do expect to be able to hard rez them. Quetzal E3 will give this deck fits - I will probably be relying more on the Punitives in that matchup. The only way to fix this weakness is running less barriers, but I don’t have influence for Tollbooth. Weyland’s main strength is its strong barriers, and I don’t think it’s worth sacrificing that just for a single matchup.
I’m not sure about Changeling. It’s a decent taxing piece of ice but I don’t like the dis-synergy with Blue Sun’s ability in case I ever need to bounce it since you will need to advance it again each time if you want to convert types. For the same reason I haven’t included Wendigo, which would otherwise be amazing in Blue Sun. I don’t like its tension with Curtain Wall which wants to be on the outside too. Maybe I could cut Curtain Wall and add in Wendigo (this making my Quetzal matchup better) but then I would need another big piece of ice to replace Curtain Wall (maybe the expansion will help here?).
I am uncertain about GC. I find I am usually starved for clicks with Blue Sun so I prefer instant infusions of cash from scoring PR to having GC drip. I rarely click for creds, mostly using my clicks to either draw or bounce and replay stuff.
Edit:
I suppose I could easily cut OAI and the Curtain Walls to make the Quetzal matchup better and be less sad about Emergency Shutdown. At that point PriReqs will probably go out too and I suppose GC would fill that spot. However, I think at that point Off the Grid will be less reliable since I won’t be able to complete shut off HQ like I would be able to if I had both Hadrian and Curtain Wall there. At the end of the day it comes back to the limited ice choice in faction.
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This is the deck I made, for comparison’s sake. My goal was to just make a super aggressive deck and kill the runner when they misstep. I’ve modified it a few times since then, but the overall goal remains the same.
Weyland is Coming to Murder You v1.4
Blue Sun: Powering the Future (Up and Over)
Agenda (9)
1x Government Contracts
2x Posted Bounty
3x Project Atlas
3x The Cleaners
Asset (6)
2x Jackson Howard ••
2x Reversed Accounts ••
2x Snare! ••••
Operation (17)
3x Hedge Fund
3x Oversight AI
3x Punitive Counterstrike
3x Restructure
3x Scorched Earth
1x SEA Source ••
1x Successful Demonstration •
Barrier (7)
1x Changeling
1x Curtain Wall
2x Hadrian’s Wall
2x Hive
1x Wall of Thorns •
Code Gate (5)
2x Datapike
1x Lotus Field •
1x Tollbooth ••
1x Wendigo
Sentry (5)
3x Caduceus
1x Guard
1x Taurus
15 influence spent (max 15)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Still debating on the Successful Demonstration inclusion. It might become just another Reversed Accounts, as those are very very potent.
*Edit - Also, I wanted to say that I was on the fence about Changeling and Wendigo as well before I included them in the deck, for the same reasons you are (anti identity synergy). But I’ve found that I usually don’t have to worry about advancing them often, and when I do I’m usually very glad that it’s a possibility more than I am sad that I lose a credit to do so. I almost never spend more than one credit advancing it, because there’s almost no point in spending another to change it back when I can just suck it back to my hand and replay it later anyway.
I originally had 2x SEA Source in the deck and was using 2x Curtain Wall, instead of the Successful Demonstration and the Wall of Thorns, and I’m considering if I want the second SEA again, as I really do like drawing one if I can’t find an Atlas to over advance. If I do, though, I’ll drop the Demonstration and the Wall of Thorns again, but instead of the second Curtain Wall, I’ll probably do a second Changeling. I think I actually like it that much. Curtain Wall is awesome, but sometimes it becomes a liability early game if I get only huge ice and no OIA.
3 Likes
I’m curious how often you see a benefit of scoring The Cleaners over Priority Requisition? In BS PriReq becomes another economy card. While I’m not a hardcore Weyland player I can’t think of many instances where 1 more meat damage would have been the difference between a successful Scorch/Punitive win or not.
Can’t say I feel strongly about it either way, just a thought.
As to your list, 3x OAI seems a bit high since I’d say there’s only 5 targets for it? Curtain Wall, Hadrian’s Wall, Wall of Thorns, Tollbooth, and two of those you may want to keep un-rez’d for the facecheck punishment.
As for the Cleaners, I love em. It’s rarely only 1 damage that it adds, since I almost always have to double scorch or double punitive to kill off the runner. But one scored Cleaners means that a double scorch flatlines a runner through a plascrete and a full hand of 5 cards.
I’m using the OAI more as an economy card and less as a rez-for-free card. If I use it to rez a Wall of Thorns or a Tollbooth, I’m usually going to suck it back to my hand. It lets the runner know that I’m running them in the deck, but they aren’t going to know where it’s going to show up next. At the very least it’s going to make them nervous about running on new unrezed ice. That being said, I’ve been thinking about removing one of the OAIs just to test it out, but I’m not really sure what I’d throw in in it’s place.
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Personally I would love to remove the OAIs but there isn’t a viable econ card to replace it. Beanstalk isn’t good enough, and I’m already using both Hedge and Restructure. Given the influence is going to be used for the deck’s gimmick, I don’t think using influence on say Sweeps Week is a good idea.
I do wonder whether a deck that dedicated to murder wouldn’t be better out of GRNDL. I mean, I understand Blue Sun’s ability is powerful for making sure you never waste credits defending your centrals, and in theory you can score out of a remote if the meat damage doesn’t make itself available.
Do you think an ice suite with just Hadrians, Changeling, Wendigo, Hive, Caduceus and a smattering of Tollbooth/Wall of Thorns is taxing enough? If Curtain Wall isn’t necessary, then that might be the way to go. It would reduce a lot of early game awkward draws and make the deck less reliant on the huge OAI bounce play - assuming of course, that you can find the econ elsewhere somehow?
Edit: Just as an aside, I’ve tested the Mushin/Grid/Punitive list on Octgn just to see if it actually works.
So far, 3 flatline wins (1 Reina, 1 Kate, 1 Andy with MO!) and 1 win against Reina by scoring out (without Grid, just remote). So maybe the Punitives are snatching games by surprise when they shouldn’t be, but it looks like the list doesn’t completely fail 
Having said that, some games were pretty rough early. I am struggling for money more than I thought I would be. Because of this, I haven’t actually used Off the Grid once yet.
I did initially doubt the 3 Archived Memories but it seems like they are necessary. They reinforce the Punitive kill as well as giving me extra OAI (if I’m lucky) or Hedge if I’m really struggling. Hive has been as amazing as expected.
I almost think Curtain Wall is overkill at this point, although the Andy flatline only happened because the runner spent all his money breaking Curtain Wall on HQ. I also did manage to PriReq a Curtain Wall twice, so there’s that.
I think I would be happy to drop Curtain Wall and OAI if there is a reasonable econ option in faction. I guess I could try Amazon Industrial Zone again in this shell for a recurring money source, but having it trashed before I can use it twice for the net gain sucks.
Just played in the Cincinnati tournament advertised on reddit over the weekend- flatlined a Quetzal first round who I was later told placed highly in Gencon Nationals this year. Quetzal doesn’t want to play cards til she has to, this lets you hit big power shutdowns. Trashed one e3 with a Taurus, then another with a shutdown. I will agree with D4v1d being hard to navigate; I’m currently running a single Rototurret in place of Targeted Marketing to make sure I have access to a destroyer below 5 str.
Played some test matches tonight with the mushin no shin / off the grid combo. Didn’t include punitives because I don’t like moving parts and all. Used this list: Mushin-Grid Combo · NetrunnerDB
Went 3 and 1, but I chalk the 1 loss up to misplay (didn’t notice the runner had a d4v1d in heap to scavenge back when I used OAI). Among the wins was this intense game where the 1-of NAPD was crucial for creating the winning scoring window: http://i.imgur.com/zXoNxmT.jpg
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I think I kind of understand why you cut Punitives. They often clog up the hand and it’s tempting to just cut them.
However, I think Punitives cover the early game weakness that you have - you’re basically a glacier deck running all 3 pt agendas to maximize the value of Mushin. Having Atlas instead is an option as it will help you reload and score the next agenda. It is perfectly reasonable to go down that path and cut Punitive since you no longer need to have 3 pt agendas.
However, it may surprise you, but Punitive was a factor in almost every single game I have played so far, and accounts for all but 1 of my wins. Even mid-late game, when a filthy rich runner manages to double Inside Job and get through to your Grid remote to score, as long as you have a single Punitive and an Archived Memories you can then bounce ice for money and proceed to kill them since they are now broke and likely low on cards in hand. This actually happened today against Iain with 30 creds, 5 clicks (Rachel) and 2 Inside Jobs. Against his overpowering economy, it is likely that I would have been unable to create a scoring window for the final agenda (I had a PriReq and Cleaners scored), but having the Punitive sealed the game. In fact, it just so happens that Punitive is amazing at punishing aggressive Crims with Shutdown as well as Quetzal/D4VID/E3, who usually run pretty poor. Given that they are two of the weakest matchups, I like having an additional way to pull away with the game.
It is annoying to have it clogging up space in HQ, but I think it is worth it. Between OAI, Mushin, Grid and Punitive, there are a lot of moving parts, but the key is that they all cover each others’ weaknesses, and excel at presenting the runner a choice between a rock and a hard place.
At this point I am pretty much sold on the Punitive plan. I do think the ice choice needs a little more work, and the OAI approach may not be the best. Mushin, Grid and Punitive all dovetail perfectly, which I am pretty happy with as a shell to work with.
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Just as a general observation, I find Shattered Remains is really scary in Scorched Blue Sun Builds. If the runner doesn’t fall for it (and I find that they generally do) you can rez and bounce it. If they do fall for it, it’s usually fatal.
traps tend to always get cut during deckbuilding for me, as I find solid econ,ice and agenda’s more important. And if they find them in R&D before you or snipe them out of your hand you are really sad.
If I want to include a trap, I’d rather take overwriter if I have the influence
Traps are far better in Blue Sun than any other ID before it. You can bounce them, then IAA again. Atlas tokens have always been very effective at setting traps (Get the Agenda, set the trap / fetch the trap, IAA) and they’e extremely playable given the extra little insurance that Blue Sun provides.
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The thing is that with a trap you are advancing and then bouncing when the Runner fails to run it, you are sinking money and never recouping it.
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