I think ES should be MWL. Corps build around their ID abilities more than Runners, and completely nullifying many deck’s strats for 3 INF in any deck is pretty sick. Leads to more homogeneous ID choices.
I’m really am trying to come back to the forums. As much as I love StimSlack, it can become an echo chamber more easily than most platforms. I applaud @SimonMoon’s endeavors to rejuvenate Stimhack articles. It’s easy to become complacent, bored, or lethargic in the current meta, but I am trying to make an effort to post more here. I think these MWL/banlist threads are showing the desire to play ANR still present. We loved the game dearly at some point, and want to feel that again.
This list looks good. I don’t know offhand if -3 influence will kick CI7 back to Tier 1.5-2, but it’s a good start. FIHP absolutely merits at least MWL action, and a ban is a wise choice.
My one concern is that, by removing Desperado and adding Temujin to the MWL, criminal gets a relative power boost over other factions. Criminal getting Temujin for “free” may make them far stronger than Shaper/Anarch, to the point that the economy of Desperado+Temujin is too comparatively strong not to play.
I’d like to expand upon the KOS list to use locally in New York while we await the MWL, and this is a solid start. I’d want to talk with players first, but I’d be happy to implement this at local events and report back thoughts/results.
I have lots of opinions (e.g. I think MWL-ing AD is silly; just ban VLC) BUT
The biggest obstacle to this sort of thing working is network effects. I would much rather play this format than current “actual” Netrunner, but I can’t play it unless there are other people also playing it. Therefore the most important thing isn’t that we argue a lot in this thread about what is the exact best set of changes. To that effect I am a huge fan of the BOLD CAPS LETTERS proclaiming that the list is locked for a while.
@Xenasis (and @SimonMoon) might I suggest (if this hasn’t happened already) that you form a “council” of players to oversee this? I think it would be much better to have this be guided by 3-5 people in some private slack channel than to be run democratically and openly (and if you need people then I would love to be involved).
I think a KoS style event is pretty suspect data for judging whether a ban list improves the meta. It tests for degenerate decks but not factional balance. KoS just naturally has a more healthy feeling meta because of the variety and wouldn’t discover if, for instance, all the best decks were orange and yellow.
That said, I love this idea and hope we can stick with a single, community list and generate plenty of results to use when making decisions. The effect on the meta does seem a better measuring stick than particular cards power levels. Net Mercur is fine.
I once complained very hard about player-led initiatives. Can’t share I hold that position anymore, I wish I could play with this or a similar list instead.
It’s not being run democratically. It’s clear that Xenasis is dictating what cards actually go on the list, when it is locked, etc. This is not a complaint. I agree that running it democratically would be a bad idea.
I don’t think it’s necessarily a problem for it to be run openly. It’s nice, as an intermediate player, to be able to see the discussions that are going into it.
Agree. I don’t see much difference between a handful of elite players making a list and FFG making a list, the difference is that players are actually more informed about the state of the game than FFG OP (which seems like a closed shop, thin resources pooled amongst all games, and probably some “strong personalities” involved).
I only have one somewhat peripheral concern:
All of this seems to emerge from certain pockets of US players in certain US metas. That’s fine, but can we have a UK person if someone is forming a council please? Just based on the content that’s produced in the UK it appears to me that everyone over there is having a lot more fun and worrying less. Maybe attendance numbers are better, there are more events within a short distance of each other, or what, I don’t know. They just seem to be getting on with it and playing lots of Netrunner. It would be great to hear whether UK folks observe the KoS list the same way.
I think another benefit of continuing to discuss the list in the open, instead of among a small “player council,” would be that any player from a meta that’s underrepresented in the discussion could add input based on that meta. And if List Dictator Xenasis didn’t make changes to the list based on said input, at least any reasons he provided about that decision would be available for everyone to read.
Not that it matters much where I think the discussion should happen, since I’m not the list dictator.
A consideration for the next Fix List - Global Food. MWL cards are there for one of two reasons: 1) because their power level makes it so that taking them over any other equivalent choice is obvious, and 2) because they allow for degenerate plays or NPEs. Food falls distinctly in the first category, in that any faction that actually takes a 5/3 will automatically consider that first, much like everyone took NAPD as their 4/2. (Exception for TFP Jinteki decks, of course, and possibly Obokata Jinteki decks soon).
Otherwise, seems like a reasonable list. I’m fine playing Netrunner without any of those cards.
You can try putting GFI on the list…
I’ll posit that there’s no 5/3’s worth taking, except for TFP. So if a deck wants a 5/3, they’ll usually be willing to spend the influence to make it GFI.
Just like with Desperado, the actual problem is that there’s nothing comparable that players would ever want to put in their decks. Still, if you’re running a fan list, GFI is a reasonable include since you can’t use the other solution: Print better 5/3’s.
