Home | About | Tournament Winning Decklists | Forums

KoS Rule Set: The Netrunner 'Fix List', Going Forward


#1

Hey folks! I have heard great things about the KoS event, and in particular the ban list that intends to sort the meta out. I’ve played a few games with the ban list myself, and it made Netrunner significantly more fun again.

I kind of wanted to make a separate post to the event to act as a hub for the ban list/rule set going forwards.

To reiterate, the ban list is as follows:

Ban List:
24/7 News Cycle
Aaron Marrón
Blackmail
DDoS
Faust
Rumor Mill
Sensie Actors Union
Şifr
Friends in High Places

Also some changes to the MWL:
ON the MWL:
Temujin Contract
Accelerated Diagnostics

OFF the MWL:
Prepaid VoicePad
Desperado

@SimonMoon (the list’s progenitor and mastermind) comments here as to how it played out, and I included his suggested updates above (and comments below): KING OF SUBWAYS - NYC ANRPC Team Event

I’d encourage people to try out some games with [KoS] in your game name on Jinteki. This format is great and I’d love to see more people playing it.

THIS LIST IS LOCKED IN PLACE UNTIL THE 10TH OF APRIL (2017/4/10)
At that date, this rule set will be evaluated and potentially iterated upon (or no changes will be made). However, no changes will be made to it until that point.


Where is the MWL? - Last Updated April 17th, 2018 - No Change
#2

Forgot friends in high places should def be added to the ban list. Also maybe Bryan Stimson. That card is ridiculously dumb.


#3

Any thoughts about Power Shutdown on the list?

Seems to do about as silly of a thing as Stinson.


#4

Lady should stay on MWL.

Accelerated Diagnostics should go to the MWL or ban list.


#5

My vote would probably be ad on mwl. I’m fine with CI being a deck I just don’t want it to be a good one. Banning VLC also seems acceptable. We can just save ourselves some time and ban all of qourum honestly.


#6

AD on banlist,Lady on MWL,otherwise not much problem with this list.


#7

I saw 20 packs of Quorum at my FLGS last week, and was like, ‘WTF?!? Did FFG really try to “sexify” the pack, and sold it retailers that way, essentially forcing an overbuy?’

If so, bad play, FFG.


#8

This echoes my view point, too. Remember, CI wasn’t everywhere before you couldn’t play glacier decks and ICE didn’t matter (also VLC).

CI is dominant now but that doesn’t necessarily mean it won’t slunk back to being reasonable afterwards.

I think putting AD on the MWL with no other changes almost certainly good enough.

I think I will put Lady back on, so that it’s a bit closer to the state of things that was played at the very diverse event. It can be evaluated to be taken off later, after we’ve got more data. Unrestricting it and Prepaid might be too heavyhanded.

Anyway, on top of these changes I think it’s a good idea to ‘lock’ them in place for at least two weeks. A sense of stability is a good thing, and it also gives a reasonable amount of time to evaluate the state of things. You don’t want to fire up a game and somebody tells you your deck is no longer legal under this rule set or whatever. I’m going to add AD, put Lady back on, and ‘lock’ this list in place until the 10th of April.

I think we can all agree that FFG aren’t good at telling us when these periods of stability are, or when they plan on changing their restricted lists, and that’s a tradition I don’t plan on continuing. Saying “changes, or the lack thereof are always going to happen on these dates that you’ll know in advance” is a good thing.


#9

Its the most ludicrous pack ever. Well sifr and Aaron need to be banned, VLC is busted with CI, Bryan is going to broken at some point if not already, and tapwyrm is also incredibly dumb. Good job ffg. I mean it for real you somehow knew these cards were too broken and kept them from worlds.


#10

Plenty of AGOT players warned about Damon, and were right. He app. created numerous cards there that were instantly restricted or banned. His design seems to vary wildly between broken and banal. I was psyched after he implemented the MWL, and 23 Seconds. However, it has slid wildly downhill since.

I really hope we are not witnessing the end of the game. I will ride it until the end, more than likely, but I saw/read ‘The Road’; living in a post-apocalyptic world is hardly living.


#11

Looking at this list i see very minor differences to mine own. The ones that do differ would probably be beneficial to hash out the arguments for, as it would benefit the whole community. Developing two sets of ban-list is really just unneccessary, and i find it unlikely that we as single players can come up with the ‘perfect’ list all on our own.

Seeing as this is, i’ll start with listing the differences in the thread already made on the subject, and I hope for some fruitful discussion.


#12

The main difference between the ideology you have and the one that went into this list is that you have put things there because they’re strong, with a smaller regard to vision or impact to meta, like Beth, Net Mercur, Mimic, Caprice, etc. There’s a bit of personal annoyance there too like Accelerated Diagnostics. People like to play these sorts of decks and as long as they’re not overbearingly powerful or too good, that’s fine. I don’t agree with banning or restricting things that don’t/wouldn’t see much play, even if they are (in general) design mistakes. In short, the ideological difference is that your ban/restricted list is more about banning powerful cards rather than cards that would benefit the meta.

The other, main difference is that this is a list that significantly more people play and have played this ban list, and it has been tested in a fairly competitive environment and you can find games of it on Jinteki.net. I’d conjecture that this list has seen more play than yours, and I can guarantee it has had (a lot) more games in a competitive environment.

On a more personal note, SimonMoon is the person I’d most trust with Netrunner design and balance over literally anybody else.

On a different note altogether, I also don’t think that the previous existence of a ‘fix list’ thread should necessarily quell others. Just because another ‘fix list’ already exists shouldn’t mean they should necessarily be consolidated into one. The existence of this list, for example, doesn’t and shouldn’t mean somebody else can’t make or talk about their own format where Net Police is banned (no other changes).


#13

I originally wrote a huge snarky post, but mostly the state of the game just makes me really sad. I expect it to get worse. We’ll see, hoping for the best and all that.

Regarding this list, was Employee Strike considered or tested for this? The economic advantage of that card is obscene, and the game design (blanking the time you spend outside the game building the deck) is aggressively unfair. Part of the contract in a game is being able to play your deck, and blanking is a negative experience particularly if there are no realistic ways to prevent it and numerous ways for Runner to recur it.

Anyway, if it’s locked, it’s locked. My two cents.


#14

It seems like a card that’s worth keeping an eye on, but I’m not convinced it’s necessarily a problem with the rest of the changes.

Note that there’s a reason that you didn’t mention Cerebral Static in this post, as it’s not so much blanking an ID is overpowered as it is Strike in the current meta specifically. When Strike was released, it was basically completely unplayable, and over time it has only really been playable when all playable Corp IDs are doing something degenerate (which they kind of have to in the current meta).

Anyway, yeah, it makes sense to see how the meta emerges (if at all) before looking at changes.


#15

Just wanting to hear your thoughts and see if maybe any data from the event could shed some light on Bioethics? It seems like Friends not being played might just be enough to curtail that being a problem. Do you have any other thoughts or data/information from the event that could touch on the subject?


#16

I’m impressed and heartened that a community-organized list has taken shape.

Has anyone considered asking for this to be added to NRDB’s Legality drop-down selector to help those of us who play on Jnet have a quick way of checking our decks?

The more word spreads and the more Netrunner players adopt this, the more it forces FFG’s hand to implement a list that takes its lead from this one.

My only question is, what if FFG dropped a new list tomorrow that was very conservative in scope and did not enact much change. What happens to the community list then?


#17

Where did this list come from, really? I try to follow Netrunner meta and discussion, but stuff constantly appears that is just " discussed by the competitive players" and no more background given. High level discussion has become a lot more opaque the last year, which I personally dislike, and which might be yet another thing hurting the game.

That I personally dislike it isn’t of any consequence, but I’m worried that high level discussion being hidden hurts any sense of community we may still have.


#18

Was basically from here:
https://stimhack.com/netrunner-and-balance-part-2-our-glorious-future/

Then Alex said you think 24/7 is really dumb right? And i said yeah. And that was the list.


#19

At the risk of being a bit off-topic: It’s my understanding that things that seem to appear out of nowhere are often from the Slack. I don’t think the high level players are hiding on purpose, I think it’s just that Slack is the Slurm of online discussion platforms. I agree that high level discussion feels a lot more opaque now than it did a year or more ago.


#20

@SimonMoon did an article series talking about Netrunner balance based on his thoughts on the meta and what cards should/could be banned to improve the game, you can find them here:

https://stimhack.com/netrunner-and-balance-part-1-the-current-state/
https://stimhack.com/netrunner-and-balance-part-2-our-glorious-future/
https://stimhack.com/breaking-news-its-good-for-the-game-by-simonmoon/
https://stimhack.com/actually-parasite-is-good-and-icebreakers-are-bad-by-simonmoon/

KoS was a team event that decided to actually take SimonMoon’s words and implement them into an actual ban list, and as such we have the data from there as the “competitive environment” data (and the testing beforehand as some extra data too).

As has been mentioned, though, more stuff is generally discussed on Slack these days than these forums.