RP is going to love that card, as well. Note the 2 INF cost.
Oh, man. Labyrinthine… it’s sick.
RP is going to love that card, as well. Note the 2 INF cost.
Oh, man. Labyrinthine… it’s sick.
Yeah, Architect is just going into RP for me when I get my hands on it. I’ll cut whatever I need to get a one-of in there. Gives you knowledge of what’s coming up,
Even if they’re liable to break it, getting to use it the once to recur something from Archives might well be worth it.
Hell, in a scoring server with Port Anson Grid or something, swap out your Agenda for a Snare! They either lose cards or a program, and have to run on Archives to get it, too bad Jinteki has no Archives punishment at all. Or put it OVER Archives and pull Agendas out when they run, at least forcing them to spend the extra click – with some Ice from R&D to boot. (Or both since it’s not unique, if you’re really committed to spending that much influence…)
Could see it doing well in Tennin, even, as a means to fetch Agendas, though you’d have to have it in front of something that’d stop them dead after… it could help set up the Nisei train, I guess, using the Nisei Counter if needbe, s’long as you end up getting another installed that turn…
And now I notice that it’s 2 HB influence and not neutral, which makes it even better. It might be one of the pieces missing from my planned NEXT Design deck, like an in-faction version of Precognition to see if it’s worth scoring that ABT. I’m sure Glacier folks’ll love it, it’s like a more generally useful Minesweeper. Mimicable, but that’s manageable, and it still comes with a lot of benefits for ETF (like installing on their turn to get a credit back, or if they’re short on clicks, installing a 3-advance agenda for scoring).
This is just an all-around interesting card, and I’m very excited to see it.
Labyrinthine makes me hopeful – Jinteki needs another 5/3 that’s decent and not a one-of like the Shards, especially for the Medtech no Shin folks… and also, it’s neat to see so many of the agendas, and to know there’ll be two new ones for each faction, plus the shards (not confirmed for Weyland or NBN, but seems likely – presumably NBN getting a Sentry buffer and Weyland getting an Agenda outside that little cycle). I mean, all the other cycles’ve had at least two per faction, I think, but this is my first full cycle, so it hadn’t really hit me.
EDIT: I’ve seen some folks elsewhere comparing Architect to Minelayer as a means of writing it off. A simple comparison shows just how wrong that is, I think, and I want to do a quick one here just in case anyone’s got doubts.
Minelayer puts one piece of Ice from HQ into the same server as Minelayer. It costs 1 to rez, is a 4 strength code gate, and has 1 influence. It’s only useful early, pretty much, to build up, say, R&D cheaply over time and turn it into something incredibly taxing. That’s all it’s good for. Now, breaking it can be a bit costly – either a datasucker token or 1-4 credits, depending on your breaker. But it only interacts with future runs, this run is never affected short of extreme edge cases.
Architect costs 4, is a 3 strength sentry, and has 2 influence. On the surface, if their abilities are the same, it’s worse – sentry breakers are very common, it costs more, it’s harder to splash, and so on. But their abilities aren’t the same. The cost for installs from HQ/Archives aside, it lets you install two things, and they can be anything. Ice, assets, agendas. You can change the run you’re on if you’re in a remote server – or, with upgrades, even if you’re not. (Pop Caprice back if this isn’t the last piece of Ice, say, or plop Ash back down.) It costs 2 to break pretty much always, sometimes a bit more (almost never less). Two subroutines is also more painful than one strong one much of the time – while the corp can’t trash it either, it’s 4/run with Knight instead of 2, even if that Knight’ll be safe as long as it’s there.
The stability of the taxation (and the need for it, because letting them put trashed cards back into play is painful, and they can Ice up any server they want – hell, you can install an Agenda behind fresh Ice. Nasty way to set up a turn 2-or-3 ABT securely) makes it a better mid-game card than Minelayer – putting it in front of a server isn’t the same massive waste, so long as it’s a server they’ll run. It can remove Archives as a Security Testing destination in a manner that might pay big dividends to you, it’s good over R&D (I’d hesitate over HQ without more ETR stuff because of Siphons, but Red Coats might not care). It brings back economy… it’s just so much better.
So please, don’t fall into the silly trap of elsewhere and think the two are anything alike. They’re really not.
The fact that it can’t be trashed means that, even if Parasited down to Str 0, it is always costing at least $2 for the runner to break, unless they want to give you back all your used up Adonis Campaigns…
Architect is pretty insane, and in combination with 3/2 agendas further validates the “don’t run last click” thing.
Is it really that good? I mean, it’s 5/3, which makes it hard to score, and the runner doesn’t want to jack out that much anyways.
Yeah I think it is good - it serves different purposes for different flavours of Jinteki.
RP likes it to prevent jacking out from the central run the runner has to make in order to hit the remote. This effectively makes running a remote more expensive, which creates larger scoring windows and/or means that the Shocks and Shi-Kyus in Archives get the job done because the runner must access.
Certain builds of Harmony and Tennin like it just because it’s a 5/3.
Then you have potentially horrendous combos using all the same old Jinteki tricks, or possibly combining some HB tech: Howler / Janus anyone (set up using Levy University)?
The thing is, I feel RP would rather still play TFP: losing 3 points to the one time they manage to force a Legwork through really hurts. And speaking as a Kate player, setting up and pulling off an Indexing, only to see a TFP on the top of R&D really sucks, especially in a server that’s not really feasible to go through more than twice. People are also quickly catching on to the fact that the way to beat RP is to hammer the centrals, which kind of invalidates the point of the ability.
Where I think it shines is in traditional PE, where you are more likely to be able to just randomly score a free 3-pointer, and in that regard LS is the best agenda you’d want to score. It lets you pull off the Inazuma/Komainu/House of Knives combo that everybody was disappointed didn’t work when H&P was spoiled, and it makes cards like Chum suddenly a lot more scary.
EDIT: Also, can a mod change the name of the topic to reflect the latest spoilers?
That agenda is nearly entirely unplayable because TFP is just so super busted. You might play it in 6-agenda medtech decks, but it’s useless anywhere else.
I don’t see if replacing TFP. Running 3 pointers is risky enough, and running one without built in protection (and potential econ drain) in a taxing deck seems backwards.
Does no one play fun dex at all?
Hey, my Shaper of choice is Professor, and my HB of choice is Stronger Together
Stronger Together is many things, I’ve never heard it called ‘Fun’ before.
I’m totally going to try a chum/howler/rsvp-shinobi deck with it, just not expecting it to be good.
I mean, that Fetal/Snare and Hokusai remote? They make a run on it, hit the Data Mine, eat some Haus of Knives, THEN have to hit the remote. Nighty night, keep your Neural EMPs tight.
Wüsthof Haus of Knives, presented by Mark Danielewski
Assuming that the text spoiler I’ve seen for Labyrinthine Servers is correct (roughly: when scored, it gets two agenda counters. Spend one to prevent the runner from jacking out, they can’t jack out for the rest of the run), it’s going to be useful in any deck that wants to runner unable to stop running. Said deck’ll already be running Port Anson Grid no doubt for those times when they haven’t scored a 5/3, but because of the prevent ability that doesn’t turn into a nombo so much as a “don’t even both trying to make me use these counters”.
@mediohxcore I agree that it’s not likely to see nearly as much play as TFP. But there’re people that, even when it’s to their benefit, don’t like Psi. There are the “all 5/3” Medtech decks (usually relying on Mushin and traps) that might like to ability to force the runner into a kill behind a Chum or something. There are tax-heavy decks (Tennin most of all, but can see some janky RP variant that wants to make sure you hit a central) that might like the ability to force you to go all the way down a taxing server before you can go to their scoring server. There are PE decks that want to kill you with Chum + Komainu but haven’t been able to make you keep going after Chum before – let alone keep going into the Hokusai/Fetal server behind, especially with HoK or Neural EMP as additional/follow-up power.
I’m not saying it should replace TFP, that’s not going to happen – TFP is just generally useful. But giving Jinteki a second 5/3, let alone one that’s actually massively useful to several strategies, opens up their options substantially. What’s there to not be excited about, aside from having to deal with these scenarios as a runner?
EDIT: Hell, it’s an Agenda that gives you two unbreakable Whirlpool runs. How many people want to use Whirlpool but don’t because of how finicky it is? Stupid Cell Portal Combo – ACTIVATE! (Or don’t, because whyyyy it costs so much to make it worth it… though, I suppose 14 credits to bankrupt/kill the runner’s not the worst possibility.)
EDIT AGAIN: Because I do like to trawl the rest of the 'net in the hopes of finding the odd good idea (much as we might like to pretend otherwise, it’s not like ALL the good players post here, alas), ran into something a bit interesting.
How does Architect interact with Awakening Center? I mean, you all but remove the cost-saving of AC (because it saves you 7, costs 2 to rez, and Architect is 4), but… wouldn’t that allow you to slip it in as a trap, installing a piece of Ice they’re not prepared to deal with on AC in an unpredictable moment? Worse, without AC being rezzed beforehand, it can actually work as something of a trap… and unless they’re dealing with Architect each run (far from impossible), you can keep recurring Ice for Awakening Center. (Pop an Inazuma in front of it!) It seems like that might make AC something that could actually end up being useful (take not, all you Stronger Together folks ).
I don’t mean it can’t be useful, I just mean that any competitive deck shouldn’t be playing it over TFP, ever.
Took my a while to figure out what the crap that was.
That’s pretty short-sighted.
I don’t think I agree that TFP is “super busted” - I see them stolen more frequently than I see them scored.