Museum of History is clearly one of the more powerful cards in the game right now, at least when it comes to empowering existing decks that just needed a little boost. And by a little boost, I clearly mean a way to endlessly recur cards, which we all know is the most powerful thing in the freaking world. So my question to everyone, is it a broken card that needs restriction of some type, or is it only broken in the sense that most Anarch cards are broken, so fuck it, it’s fun!
I’m thinking the latter, as I can’t quite think about making a deck without it that fits my playstyle, so I wouldn’t want to suddenly autolose to noise again. I’m posting this after having all my Howards milled in a noise match, and I was paralyzed, unable to combat it. It wasn’t the MOST competitive deck, but it wasn’t some lunacy shit show deck either. But I know it wouldn’t have lost if I had just put 5 more cards in the game. What do you guys think about 50+ card decks now anyway?
So far I haven’t been overly impressed by anything running Museum. The best I’ve seen it used for is keeping R&D density low in decks that typically lose to central accesses.
I’m not sure how it’s one of the most powerful cards in the game.
To endlessly recur cards you need to endlessly defend it. That means either play Industrial Genomics (fair enough, it’s a perfectly suited card for this ID), or hide it behind ICE. If you are doing the latter, think what else it could have been that if you were protecting it for that long would flat out win you the game rather than just recur some cards.
It’s a very manageable asset for any runner with decent econ and requires the corp to either blow too much influence or build a suboptimal deck. 54 cards is very much a drawback. I think it’s fine.
Museum endlessly prolongs the game but doesn’t necessarily advance a particular plan. Most decks need to eventually draw into agendas to win, and many runners have oppressive late games. A lot of these Museum decks are winning in spite of MoH itself, which is diluting an otherwise strong strategy (asset spam, NEH fast advance, Gagarin trolling, etc.) as much as its recurring trashed cards. I’ve played with Museum a bit but mostly avoided the temptation.
It’s also just 3 to trash & not worth defending. I don’t quite understand how runners find it so difficult to deal with.
I don’t think it’s overpowered but it definitely makes for long grindy kinds of games and increases the amount of accesses it takes to win. But from a meta prospective museum kinds of decks seem to be the counter to a lot of anarch shenanigans and in that sense maybe it’s a good thing? I’ll be honest now that the novelty has faded I don’t enjoy playing against museum decks but I don’t feel they’re OP either. It’s definitely the defining card of an entire archetype the way astro/biotic is for FA decks or caprice/ash is for glacier.
So I gather people don’t think it’s greatly powerful, but powerful enough, or not worth it. There are a lot of runners with oppressive late games, but there’s now a lot of corps out there that also have a ridiculous late game, and plenty more that have there’s extended long enough to win. The fact that if you have interns in your deck, it’s very possible for museum to never go away. You don’t need to protect it forever, if at all. Stalling the game is a great way to hit someone with reversed accounts or something, or biotic/astro breaking news and closed accounts, and you can pretty much run away with the game, no matter what plan you’re on. I think it’s just powerful enough, but I’m worried that it might be ubiquitous as the card of choice for IG or Gagarin. I’ve had amazing success with the card against every runner, with every Corp but the Yellow Turbans. I hear that deck likes its unlimited sansans and biotics. I’ve seen people start to play archives interface on Jinteki often enough that it’s slightly worrysome given certain match ups. I think it helps asset spam, as 3 credits isn’t a trifling amount of credits to spend trashing an asset that doesn’t cost the Corp much to rez. Thinking about the responses in this thread, I definitely don’t feel it’s overpowered anymore, but I feel a lot of you haven’t really tried hard enough to make the card work.
Side Note: I just realized one of the reasons they worded the Most Wanted List was losing maximum influence is that way it will work if they put alliances on the list
Mumba temple and museum have spawned an entire new archetype - across all factions. Namely they have made asset spam decks viable. This is absolutely awesome for the diversity of the game.
Asset spam was viable before either of these cards and having both in your deck is normally a bad call. I can’t think of what’s worse on a54 card deck than 14 ice.
I think it’s fine from a power level perspective, but from a design perspective I strongly dislike that they’ve printed a card that breaks that previously fundamental rule that if the Corp durdles for too long then they will eventually deck themselves and lose the game.
I liked having that clock on the game and how that meant the Corp had to do something to attempt to win at some point.
The sky obviously isn’t falling because you can just trash the damn thing, but still.
I disagree, MoH further enables control type corp decks, an archetype which still is quite underrepresented in the meta. And I’m actually happy to see other stuff than rush rush rush.
I play Mumba Temple and the Museum in most of my decks, cause asset spam is helped so very much by Mumba, and ice isn’t the only way to defend your servers anymore. I can see how this would normally be bad, however, the games never end up being as one sided as you think. If you have ice in your starting hand, and a low agenda density, it’s hard to have an objectively bad hand that you can’t in someway salvage.
I would like to add that Museum is clearly note powerful in Gagarin and IG, and they might be the only decks that matter for the card. I’m not bragging, but I have a pretty sweet IG deck, and a horrible but awesome Gagarin deck that use both, and I routinely win on Jinteki with these decks. If I see any stimhackers online, I’ll make sure to challenge you thusly, and with great honor. I’m betrothed to honor.
I will stop being openly hostile in my posts @Argamas, this must be a headache for you.
It’s a powerful card, but it’s not broken nor as widely useful as it seems at first glance.
First, it doesn’t help you win. What it does is let you play for longer, minimize exhaustion and prevent R&D from being satured with agendas. It won’t make you good at actually playing for longer. You would not jam Interns in every deck, so you shouldn’t do the same with Museum of History.
Second, it requires you to play 54 cards and needs to be protected. You could be playing 49 cards and protecting a SanSan, Daily Bussiness Show or Eve Campaign.
It works on the right deck, of course. Genomics benefits inmensely from being able to bring back its Hostile Infrastructures and Battys and does already excel in the late game. I also think it helps Foundry decks since a low-density R&D was a huge problem for them.
Other than that, I think people will eventually come off the card when they realize that recurring Turtlebacks over and over is not a great tactic. Give it time.
I’ve taken IG with museums to two store champs and haven’t dropped a game with it or gone to time. I think I know how the card works, thank you very much, and it’s not even close to the most important slot in the deck.
just thought I throw some things out here for people to chew on:
at least some of the the feeling that this card could somehow be too strong is based on widespread lack of knowledge about playing against the card. Once you start facing runners that know to trash on sight, it gets much weaker. (obviously, this can be easier said than done in IG, more on that in a second).
Many of the people dismissing these types of decks for their “obvious” downsides (54 cards, 15 ICE, etc) have either never played them, never played against a skilled pilot, or both. IG in particular is a very tough deck with tons of strong matchups right now, and genuinely has 54 cards it wants to play, and only about 15 of them are ICE.
The reason so many people have so little experience with and against these decks is simple: they are extremely impractical to play in a tournament setting. There have been a few wins by very skilled pilots running lightening-fast runners, but in general reliably fitting a game with these decks into 30 minutes is going to be a pipe dream even for relatively experienced and fast players. Add in the fact that runners are inherently reactive and as such even the fastest runners can be drawn into longer games, the chance that you’ll make it through large events without getting unfavorable timed-results seems very, very low.
Sure, in a “true” meta where the only measure is how often you can win the game in the end, these decks might be very strong (Personally I think there are “T1” IG lists out there as we speak). We’ll probably never know, though, because the vast majority of the community’s strongest players (and the majority of the community’s want-to-be strongest players ;D ) are playing with a mind towards tournaments and thus probably won’t ever be attracted to playing these decks.
