NAPD Most Wanted List - *Update July 2016*

Sigh, the force is truly stronger in the dark side now.

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I agree that high-level play is where the bar should be set. However rules have been altered for fun & entertainment’s sake in lots of sports/games and I’m not sure MWL is (or will be) exempt from that either.

Hammering your opponents weak spot repeatedly has always been ok and is often mistaken as an abuse of rules, but various rules get changed to encourage attacking play and discourage certain types of behaviour, even if they are technically fair. For example awarding 3 points for a win and 1 for a draw was introduced in football to encourage attacking playing and reduce teams settling for draws, even though it’s an entirely legitimate and counterable tactic. Penalties for things like getting a lead in a fight and hanging back to win on points - as referenced in the article you linked earlier - are introduced not because they are unfair and imbalanced as such, but because the administrators of the sport want it to be entertaining and fun as well as competitive.

So, while many cries of ‘IMBA’ are indeed nonsense and sometimes are directed at entirely intentional and designed-in gameplay styles, there are still times when un-fun play or play that’s not ‘in the spirit of the game’ gets ruled out. In fact, from another article by the same author, the top Japanese SSF2 Turbo players apply their own gentlemen’s agreement regarding a powerful character even though it’s tournament legal.

I guess my point is that yeah the game doesn’t have to be noob-friendly by any means, but sometimes people cry wolf and, well, it’s actually a wolf! (I suck btw, no idea if Blackmail is an issue at all.) The difficulty comes in telling when, say, a deck that plays itself is a deck that has no counter and requires no skill to play (only skill to build) or it’s just no-one has found the right counter yet. With that in mind, I hope the MWL doesn’t become a home for knee-jerk reactions, or a safety net for looser card design and power levels…

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This will always be true unless you want to play a game that is perfectly balanced from a game-theoretic point of view, such as rock-paper-scissors-(lizard-Spock).

The restricted list in AGoT didn’t have this effect. Damon was behind AGoT for a while too and cards came off the restricted list as the environment developed.

I’d say it sure as hell is that reason, but the main factor behind it is that PPVP crushes the design space for events, particularly economy events.

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I actually think this is by far the primary reason. As it stood PPvP was making event econ a total dead end design wise as any additions were likely to be disproportionately powerful.

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I still disagree with this sentiment that PPVP constricts event design space. Kate’s discount is the only reason we have seen it played competitively. Without Kate’s discount, it takes 3 full turns to pay out positively. Moreover, I don’t think any deck is going to play PPVP without playing a Levy. Levy is also in Shaper–another reason PPVP has only been seriously utilized in Shaper. Now, for factions besides Shaper to use PPVP, they have to invest 6 influence: 3 PPVP and 1 Levy. This defeats one of the main advantages of having PPVP in the first place (IMO), which is the ability to splash some high-impact events.

My issue with PPVP being on the MWL is that it does absolutely nothing on its own. It demands to be built around, and that type of restriction warrants efficiency.

tl;dr I don’t think PPVP will ever be played while it’s on the MWL, and I think that’s unfortunate and proof that it doesn’t deserve restriction. I think it’s the only card on the Runner side that no one is remotely considering playing any more.

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You do realize that Kate, the deck that kept NEH in check, was just completely ruined? NEH was not an issue, and had not been for a long time. NEH vs. Kate, due to CVS and Clot, was the single most interactive, most skill testing match you could play in Netrunner. It was fucking awesome to play a Kate vs. NEH game in the knockout rounds of a big tournament.

Astro only had to be nerfed because they gutted the deck that could keep it in line.

And I’m still baffled by the fact that people are still on the ‘NEH is too strong’ train of thought, especially given DLR exists now, and is way more oppressive than NEH ever was. Not to mention, NEH, the deck that could give DLR issues, is nerfed, with DLR being untouched.

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Mostly. The WNP errata helps.

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Ehh. Only if you’re playing SYNC. No one else can ever afford to get through WNP and a fall guy and still have a chance to win.

Certain factions can have the cash. Weyland/Foodcoats with Crisium,no? RP?

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They certainly can. RP and Foodcoats could both battle for money before in some games, and that much will be a lot easier before.

There’s not much point worrying about DLR, the deck isn’t good any more. I would have preferred its cards to go on the MWL instead of functional errata but whatever.

Fine take your Crisium point. Sometimes.

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We’re obv. in some disagreement about the MWL (I plan on writing an article on it over the next day or so, not that anyone cares). However, I agree about the toning down of Kate, the best Clot user, leading to NEHFA only being stronger. It lost some juice, for sure, but after running a 2 Biotic NEHFA MWL yesterday a bit against @aandries, I find it to still be strong. Even took Whizz to the cleaners, continually dropping stuff for him to destroy, while digging for scoring pieces.

I was 3-0 v. DLR at Worlds with NEHFA, and see it being my strongest Corp deck going into SC season, that I will take if I am really looking for a win.

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About PPVP: It’s just drip econ, right? Easy to trigger, cheap for Kate, but still drip econ. It doesn’t really make events cheaper, it’s drip that requires you to play at least one event to get the payout.

Cyberfeeder is comparable, but won’t get the Kate bonus.

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Yet most programs you use cyberfeeder for don’t gain you a net amount of money, while 2/3 times ppvp does, and as we all know, money (used to) win(s) games

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I worded my statement too strongly. I think there are multiple reasons Yog is on the list. One is to fix up the color pie. Another is the design-space issues it presents.

Noone in ~300 messages (that I saw) had mentioned the color pie aspect, and I think it should be part of the discussion.

Look fwd to the article. I’ve been wanting to hear some concrete opinions by the big names in the scene. Too bad @mediohxcore said on Reddit he wouldn’t be speaking much on the matter.

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Title:“NAPD Enemy No.1 talk about NAPD”

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How about Underworld Contacts then.

PPVP is better, but it’s not different.

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I am interested in seeing the numbers of how people feel about this, so here is a poll:

If you are reading this then I would appreciate it if you voted

Astro also had to be nerfed so that any NBN player would consider not running it without eating paint chips