It’s rumoured that the MWL will be updated every tournament season
what? i can’t imagine anything worse for the state of netrunner. where is this rumor from?
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Seems to require a Twitter account to vote. Make a Google poll and I’m in. Also, the current 3 options are a bit too broad to be useful, IMO.
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I chose a small set of options to make it easy to see the big picture. I’m not really interested in the breakdown between “I think it’s good” and “I think it’s good except I disagree with the inclusion/exclusion of card X” (PPVP being there is unequivocally silly; beyond that I’m sure People Have Opinions).
Requiring a Twitter account is unfortunately (sampling bias! 
). If someone else wants to make a Google poll then that would be cool.
I’m pretty surprised no one has posted this here, but the most recent ‘The Winning Agenda’ podcast has an in depth interview with the lead designer of netrunner, Damon Stone, about the MWL and more. I’m incredibly new to the scene, so i’m kind of just sitting back with popcorn and will netdeck when possible, but seems like it’s at least worth mentioning, considering he spends about 3-5 minutes explaining the choice for each card to be added to the list.
Episode 64.
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I’ll actually go on a little bit about PPVP, if you cbf finding the explanation yourself.
Basically the reasoning was it affects game design. It means you can’t release an event at 5 cost and assume its a 5 cost card. you have to assume kate will have at least one PPVP, which means balance it around being a 4 cost card. Meaning it’s just bad for everyone who isn’t using PPVP.
Hopefully I interpreted correctly.
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nvm
Appreciate the parse - I’m at work and can’t listen yet.
I can’t imagine any interesting or particularly powerful cards where a 1c cost differential really makes-or-breaks them outside of more econ cards - which is exactly what PPVP turned on (event economy as a companion or alternative to resource or run economy).
Excuses like this are why I don’t like the design-in-a-vacuum mentality. I could give less than a shit about a card on paper - how does it effect top 32/top 16 makeups, how does it affect deck participation? Ugh.
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Confirmed via the podcast, too.
There’s still only one deck you can logically not run it in (the same one there was beforehand). It did nothing except remove 3 influence from NBN decks.
If someone wants to explain why The Professor want to play PPVP now, since it’s basically have the same 3 turn payouts as Cyberfeeders,
If someone wants to explain why the professor wants Yog in x1 over a Gordian Blade x3,
If someone wants to explain why the professor wants to play Clone Chip over Scavenge,
That would explain to me that rather “blind” (I could say another word) conclusion which is saying he’s Shaper #2 now.
“Because he can put 3 Ladies” is not an answer.
I say he’s #2, as in “second from the bottom” of Shaper tier.
I made 2 professor loosing a game vs Nisei Division and another vs Sol this weekend.
Breaking news : decks who won vs the Professor still win vs the Professor with +/- 3 less inf points.
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Cliff Notes from the Damon interview:
- Yog is included because the impression is that Corps have stopped considering code gates strength 4 or lower.
- Decklist websites are not considered valid snapshots of the meta; spreadsheet analysis of official tournament decklists is preferred.
- “Lady is one of the best barrier breakers out there;” granted it is limited use, but in Shaper it’s not difficult to mitigate this.“The problem is that Shaper is not supposed to be good at breaking barriers.”
- Clone Chip is on the list because of its ubiquity, its ease of use, its low influence, and the effect it has on the game in general. Jesse Marshalls argues that CC fills a role that no other cards do (unlike Eli and Lady, for example); Damon counters that it’s just too powerful a card as printed. Damon says that CC is very close to perfect in design–not overpowered–but currently a bit too above the curve.
- Jesse asks if Damon is concerned that restricting Desperado will be the nail in the Criminal coffin at the competitive level; Damon laughs; isn’t worried about it. “The biggest hit to Criminals has been that Corps have figured out how to play around Andy” and once she went away players stopped playing Criminal because the hivemind said she was the only one worth playing. Damon is convinced that Criminal has been unfairly abandoned by the meta. Desperado is MW because most players won’t consider any other blue console. “That’s a card that should have costed 5…The card’s too good.”
- Hollis asks if some of these choices are future proofing, meaning they are included because of other cards down the pipeline; Damon says yes, but not heavily, since it’s easier to change the list once new cards come out.
- Damon on Parasite: “Mostly it has to do with the idea that having the ability to…insta-kill ICE upon the first run was just deemed too stifling to the meta-game.” Why was Parasite chosen over Datasucker? The choice was made for Parasite based on 2 playtesters’ well-supported reasons regarding the overall impact of Parasite versus Datasucker on the meta-game.
- Damon on PPVP: Personally he believed that PPVP Kate was “way too prevalent,” but that is not the reason for its inclusion, though it may have influenced the decision to include it. “This card impacted event creation in a major fashion…it was just affecting design decisions way too frequently.” Apparently there are many cards that have been binned until PPVP rotates.
- Damon & Co. have a good laugh about Force of Nature.
- Damon: “Playing in the current meta-game is very difficult for me,” because he is accustomed to playing in a post-rotation environment.
- Why not Faust? Damon: “I think mostly it is a case of the card being…so new.”
- Jesse begs for a Weyland AI-hate card. Damon: “I like Weyland,” and teases that their time will come.
- Architect was chosen for its prevalence. “It protects itself in a fashion that no other card does…It’s just above the curve and…in an excessive amount of decks.”
- Mimic was considered for the MWL. “Putting Mimic on the list…along with Yog and Parasite puts Anarch in a not enviable place.” Corroder was also considered.
- Damon says play-testers had lists for consideration that were approximately twice as long as the current MWL.
- Damon on AstroScript: “It is…solely responsible for the population density of the past 2 years of NBN…The card is just the best agenda available…If a card is running away…there was a mistake somewhere…There was no other agenda that when it was included it was always times three…[Since] after the first Worlds, NBN has been the most represented Corporation, and I feel a significant portion of that has to do with this one card.”
- Scorched Earth was considered, due to how punishing it can be, but the influence requirement was deemed already steep enough.
- Damon on Eli: “There are a lot of good to decent barriers that cost 3, and…within 1 strength or so that are just ignored because they are more expensive.” It restricts design space, and Damon and FFG would like other barriers to be considered. Including Eli was especially easy due to the existence of Markus.
- Damon isn’t convinced that we won’t see any more 3/2s. They will be on a case-to-case basis, specifically by faction.
- Damon: “Half of the cards on this list could come off at some time,” while the other half are probably permanent inclusions. NAPD is of the former group.
- SSCG was included because “it’s an instant-threat on the table, and having it on the list will encourage people to look to other cards in their deck composition…Between Astro and SSCG, one of those is obviously one that may be taken off the list if NBN stops having such huge popularity in tournament play,” in reference to SSCG.
- MWL will change with the meta, depending on what are considered the best decks and cards.
- Why not Jackson Howard? “Jackson was never on the list…The various things that Jackson does will always be present in the game,” but it’s unlikely they will take the same form.
- Damon says instant-speed cards have to be carefully balanced, moving forward.
All quotes are Damon; tried to get them as accurate as possible on first pass.
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Thanks for the writeup! But boy golly, is that frustrating.
The ‘impression’ is that <4str code gates have been given up, but I’ve seen many, many decks using Enigma and Quandary as gear-check ice?
Plus, the ubiquity argument doesn’t sit well with me. Just feels like tossing the meta around for the sake of it. Appreciate the rundown so I didn’t have to listen to this myself, unless you’d still recommend it?
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I think I did a fair job of hitting all the main points. I didn’t want to include any personal thoughts in the same post as the cliff notes, but I obviously don’t agree with everything said. Damon had many valid points, and I respect him a lot for doing an interview immediately following the release of the MWL.
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There is a link for the source or that podcast is something you have still in grip ? 
I find it funny that Yog.0 is considered as the reason why low-strength code gates aren’t being considered but here’s the list of code gates with strength 3 or less (bolded are the ones that currently see play in at least one competitive deck, even if it’s a fringe inclusion):
Clairvoyant Monitor
Crick (when not on Archives)
Datapike
Enigma
Gyri Labyrinth
Ireress
Lycan (when advanced)
Marker
NEXT Bronze (assuming few NEXT ICE rezzed)
Pop-up Window
Quandary
Salvage
Turing (when on centrals)
Victor 1.0
Yagura
Granted, some of these aren’t seen that often, but I do see them. Clearly Yog.0 is not enough of a threat to dissuade people from playing them. The others are actually just not good enough in effect, let alone cost, to warrant inclusion. Turns out there are a lot of higher strength code gates than anything else.
Furthermore, it seems like the ICE just outside Yog.0 range aren’t much better; look at the number of ICE at strength 4:
Builder
Bullfrog
Chum
Hourglass
Lotus Field
Merlin
Minelayer
Rainbow
RSVP
TL;DR
Viper
Wendigo
Of those not highlighted, the only others with the potential for inclusion in a deck are Chum, Hourglass(?), Rainbow, RSVP, and Wendigo among 4-strength ICE, and Gyri Labyrinth and Victor 1.0 among the others. The rest don’t excite me. And that’s ignoring Yog.0’s presence.
If anything, I’d argue that there aren’t enough low-strength code gates that have unique, useful abilities and that’s why the number of used code gates is low, rather than deckbuilding around Yog.0.
11/27 isn’t the worst. If you include the others I mention, that’s 16/27, more than half. Seems pretty varied to me.
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Thanks for the note !
Did he said anything about identity’s influence limit reduction being public information ?
Why are you replying to me with this post?
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The thing about low strength codegates is strange. What meta game is he watching exactly? Plenty of low strength codegates get included now, and I’m not sure Yog is the deciding factor pushing out the ones that don’t see play.
It’s clearly a factor of some kind but I think the generally underwhelming effects of the currently ignored low strength codegates are probably more important.
Overall, though, code gates usually make up a small portion of a deck’s ice. (Usually being a key word there.)
I’d argue that Crick is generally included for Archives play above all else, and that Turing is usually only on centrals as a counter to AI.
And I think you’re underestimating how much Yog (and Parasite, in fairness) has helped pare that list down already… as well as how many of the things that see play are there as gear-check alone, without expectation of lasting once the breaker hits.
I’d say that without Yog, TL;DR becomes more appealing (even if it’s positional and more dead to me than Chum), but that more than just what might be added that we know about the big changes will likely be: more low-strength code gates in the same deck being less inherently terrible, more code gates overall in the same deck being less terrible, and FFG printing more and more interesting low-strength code gates (possibly more ones with multiple subroutines).
Yog might be less of a factor right now, but I can see how it’d be a concern for the future, because if ever they printed something that demanded a non-AI answer we’d see it swing right back in.
Like, Datapike’s a pretty decent bit of Ice if the runner won’t be breaking it for free. If they are, Enigma is inherently superior. Between Faust and the MWL, Datapike is looking like a reasonable choice right now.
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While not necessarily related to the MWL, this is a pretty important statement. I think a lot of people freak out that J-How is eventually going away, but so long as the effects remain in the game in some usable state, I don’t mind if the card itself rotates out.
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