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Nasir Meidan's Philosophy


#41

You could check out the recent posts in this thread Exploring a Stalling Metagame: Nasir Meidan StimShop by El-Ad David Amir

But my actual recommendation would be: don’t play Nasir. I love him, but he’s really bad right now.


#42

If you really, really want Nasir, play Stealth, leave money as long as possible on Net Mercur, don’t get tagged. :wink: You can take any good Smoke build and use the five cards you need to add anyway (as Nasir needs a 45-card deck, in comparision to Smoke’s 40) to accelerate the build or adjust it to Nasir’s need of dumping money before he loses it. But with Net Mercur and enough other Stealth sources you can actually play a relatively moneyless build.

Other than that:


#43

Reviving an old thread here to try and kickstart discussion about this intriguing ID. Because Nasir isn’t rotating yet, the announcement of Core 2.0 and the ban/restriction list opens up conversation about deck building, and there are a number of cards that have been released in the past year since this thread was last updated, I’m curious to hear from the “hive mind” about what you would include in a competitive Nasir deck.

The first post in this thread is a good reminder of general considerations of Nasir’s strengths and weaknesses when it comes to philosophy of building decks around his ability. However, it’s a bit outdated now.

Some of my thoughts on cards that might be worth considering:

  • System Seizure: This 0-credit current allows you to retain the strength of your first icebreaker boosted during a run. If you know what you’re going to encounter, you could preemptively boost that breaker to save money throughout the run. If you use this in conjunction with Gordian Blade, you can have multiple breakers that retain their strength, offering you more targets for effectively spending credits between ice encounters.

  • Mammon: This could be a primary breaker that you dump extra credits into. In conjunction with System Seizure, you could add all of the counters you need at the start of the turn, boost strength on approach, and then have the ability to break as many subs as needed regardless of what ice you encounter.

  • Derez cards: If you can consistently force the Corp to derez cards, or choose to not rez ice on runs that threaten scoring, you can capitalize on Nasir’s ability. Leave No Trace is an influence-heavy option (3 influence) that seems like it would have a powerful effect in a Nasir deck. Emergency Shutdown is a little more affordable at 2 influence, and the 0 play cost means it would work well to allow for additional runs on the same turn. Maxwell James is even easier to import at 1 influence, and could help with remote locking.

  • Escher: This might be more of a stretch, but you could use this to put more derezzed ice on a server that you want to target on a subsequent run. At the same time, you could stack ice types on the same server, allowing you to capitalize on breakers like Blackstone or Gordian Blade.

  • Stealth cards: I think a stealth-based rig is a strong consideration here, which is stronger than ever in the past year. Net Mercur is an obvious choice for storing credits to supplement costs for icebreakers. Recurring credits (e.g., Cloak) and other cards that retain strength for the remainder of the run (Blackstone, Houdini) are also good options.

What other economy options would make sense to consider? I’m wondering in particular what you would use to quickly recover from 0 or 1 credits between runs, so you can get back to credit thresholds necessary to play events or install additional cards. Everyone keeps saying that Nasir can be really rich, but I have never really tried him, so I’m wondering if someone could offer insight into how much economy to include in a deck. For example, is Magnum Opus a contender here to help you recover from having low credits?


#44

I don’t currently have much to add to the conversation, though I do plan on trying things out with Nasir for funsies. (Note that he’s probably not a good ID when fast advance is popular.)

I just wanted to point out that Nasir was printed in Upstalk and will be rotating in the next rotation.


#45

Study Guide, maybe? It seems like it should be good, because it’s a place to dump credits mid-run and then benefit from them later, but maybe it’s too expensive and/or needs the money too early.


#46

Hah, I’m dumb. Thanks.


#47

Algo Trading seems like a good card for Nasir. Being able to “off-shore” your credits is pretty much half the battle when playing the Cyber Explorer.


#48

Nasir with Security Nexus + Power Tap allows you to avoid newly rezzed low cost ICE when you need to. Unless the Corp is rich beyond words you get to choose when Nasir’s ability fires, not the corp.

Here is my latest build…

Nasir - Ghost In The Machine

Nasir Meidan: Cyber Explorer (Upstalk)

Event (16)

Hardware (4)

Resource (16)

Icebreaker (3)

Program (6)

15 influence spent (max 15, available 0)
45 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Revised Core Set

Deck built on NetrunnerDB.

  1. Get Trope out fast, if you do not draw into it by round 2, pop an SMC to get it on the table.
  2. Hyper draw your deck and quickly establish your boardstate.
  3. Pressure the Corp as long as possible before you pop Trope, you want at least 8 counters.

#49

Very weird. What are you expecting to cycle with trope? And why not just play Lady instead of the terrible and terribly ambitious Ankusa. Same with dagger v nanotek? Personal preference?


#50

Some people are playing ankusa as kakugo protection?

I mean, I don’t get it either.


#51

Oh yeah, you cycle with trope. And you control what comes back. Just leave what you don’t need behind.
With all the draw you have you will get your rig and supporting stuff out quick.

As to the breaker selection, the stealth breakers are super efficient and either I can use Nexus to bypass massive barriers or I can lift up cheap ones out of the way.

This is not a tier 1 deck. It was a concept deck and it works pretty well. I would never take it up against a meta full of super rush decks or Skorp. Everything else is a fair game.


#52

I’ve been tinkering with Nasir lately. Yes, even now, in the year of our Lord Boggs, post-rotato, MWL 2.0, post-Worlds.

I’m doing this chiefly because I’m a crazy person, but also because I suffer from hipster syndrome (my only other Runner projects at the moment are all Criminal).

Anyway, let’s get this out of the way: there is no competitive reason to play Nasir right now. He lost Personal Workshop, and he has real troubles with Stinson and HHN. If you like winning games, you can quit reading now.

Ok, let’s get down to business.

The key elements of a modern Nasir list (what a sentence that is) are:

  • Self-Modifying Code and Clone Chip: You obviously need some way to spend creds during a run, these are the best (only) tools for the job, so you should play them.
  • Recurring credits: You’re going to need some money to break ICE, probably. Options include Cloak, Multithreader, and Cyberfeeder. Much more on these options later.
  • A 3-Cost Synergy Piece: Xanadu or Rubicon Switch. BUT WHICH ONE??? More on this later.
  • A Win Condition: I like Indexing and The Turning Wheel for this.

Hopefully this has whetted your appetite for janky Nasir talk. Stay tuned! (I have lists!)


#53

Let’s start by talking about deck construction, specifically recurring credits.

Sources of recurring credits:

  • Spinal Modem: Not a terrible option for a 1-link runner like Nasir, but 4c is a bit harsh on the tempo, and the influence is probably better spent elsewhere.
  • Cloak: 1c, 1MU, 1 recurring stealth. Pretty great! Pushes you into a stealth rig with Net Mercur, which then solves a problem I forgot to mention in my first post, which is “How Do I Ever Have Credits Though”. Let’s bookmark Cloak
  • Multithreader: 3c, 1MU, 2 recurring. Ok, the tempo hit is significant, but 2 credits you can use to pay for SMC as well as breakers is pretty nice. MU concerns probably mean you can only run Cloak or this.
  • Cyberfeeder: 2c, 0MU, 1 recurring. In theory this should be a decent option, but it feels like a bad Cloak. Maybe I’m overlooking this one.

So, I’ve been testing with the Cloak + Net Mercur package, and it’s pretty decent, although yes, you’re sort of playing weird bad Smoke at that point. That’s ok. I’ve also been using Technical Writer as a means of building up a cache of dollars outside of your credit pool, and those builds prefer Multithreader.

In general, I find that I either want to run Cloak or Multithreader.


#54

3 Cost Synergy Piece

Rubicon Switch: Lets you do cute things like bouncing off of an ETR ice and using the Nasir money to derez it right away. With recurring credits, lets you do that cute thing to other ice as well.

Xanadu: Annoys the Corp by making their ice cost more to rez, and gives us an extra dollar when they do rez it. More about value than doing something rude.

It’s possible we don’t need either one, but both bring something good to the table in terms of ID synergy.

Non-credit pool sources of credits

Algo Trading: Right, so I know a lot of Nasir players (all twelve of you) swear by this card now, but having played it a bit, I’m disillusioned. Yes, if you draw it early, it can be a sort of delayed Bloo Moose. Yes, it gives you a way to move credits out of your pool. But here’s the thing: if you don’t draw it early, it’s trash. Also, I don’t want to put my money into a hole early in the game, I want to spend it setting up!

Technical Writer: Clone Chip and SMC are your setup tools, and they also trigger the Writer a bunch. This card has worked pretty well for me - being able to burst up a bunch of credits is good, even moreso here. Plus, it costs 0, so it doesn’t hinder setup at all.

Net Mercur: We all know how this card works. It’s great! In conjunction with Cloak, you can keep about 4c on this thing for emergencies and finance your occasional Indexing runs.

I’m split between Tech Writer and Net Mercur, since they both require fairly different shells.

Win Condition

Indexing is the strongest multi-access in the game, and we get it for no influence. Let’s play it?

The Turning Wheel does something important for us: it gives us value from probing runs, which is something we want to do fairly often. Our ability + some cash + SMC means we can facecheck fairly confidently, but if we’re only going for a single access, the Corp might not rez at all! Turning Wheel counters adds pressure to the Corp’s rez decision (which is definitely what we’re going for in general).

Study Guide? Egret?

An interesting alternative to stealth. A Study Guide, once installed and built up to about 6str, can deal with all of the code gates you’re going to see for very cheap. And Egret lets you spread that love to any other piece of ice for cheap (and with a Clone Chip even!). I think these cards go well in a Tech Writer + Multithreader build.

More thoughts to come!


#55

An Apology

I got too excited talking about building Nasir decks and failed to explain why I think he’s fun to play, and what our goals are for his deck.

Why Play Nasir, Exactly?

More so than any other Runner (save Los), Nasir makes the Corp sweat at step 2.3 of every run. Do I rez? That’s the question we want to pose the Corp, and we want it to be a tricky one. Additionally, Nasir changes how you look at ice. Getting paid for facechecking is a cool feeling! To sum up: Nasir makes the game interesting and different for both players, and that makes it all worth it to me.

Also, if they ever print Personal Workshop 2.0 and he becomes Tier 3 again, you can tell people you played him before it was cool.

What Does A Nasir Deck Want To Do?

Whatever it wants, really. Specifically, our gameplan is split into distinct phases.

  1. Setup
    You need to get some money and install some stuff. Depending on the build, you might be installing Multithreader, Cloak, Dhegdheer, Astrolabe, Clone Chip, Net Mercur, Xanadu, etc. You really want to see an SMC, since it and Clone Chip are your surest ticket to getting all of your stuff online. This phase lasts until you have enough money and an SMC and are ready to go farming.
  2. Facechecking For Fun And Profit
    With the requisite amount of money and an SMC, you can go check some facedown ice. Ideally they rez something you can fetch a breaker for with your pre-rez money, and that gives you enough Nasir bucks to break it with post-rez. There are some annoying ices that won’t play super nice here (Vanilla and Pop-up window come to mind). If you’re on Xanadu, you’ll still get a credit to work with, but otherwise, you should still spend the pre-rez money on installing your breaker (spend em while you got em). The more recurring bucks you have on the table before your first run, the better, but you have to make sure that you’re applying enough pressure to the corp. Nasir’s ability, when taken into account in your deckbuilding and play, punishes Corp rezzes, so we have to lean into that a bit.
  3. Oh No Everything Is Rezzed
    It’s ok! This happens sometimes. The Corp will quit installing facedown ice for you to get money from. It’s annoying, but what can you do? Well, Rubicon Switch is an option. The other option is just to use your recurring credits to make central runs every turn until they cough up the agendas. Your icebreaker suite should be pretty efficient, whether you’re on stealth or Study Guide shenanigans, so this is kind of an easy part of the game. Watch out for good cards like Hard-Hitting News or Punitive Counterstrike. Spooky!

Building With Our Goals In Mind

Cards that help accelerate setup:

  • SMC
  • Clone Chip
  • Peace in our Time
  • Build Script (not Deuces, you’re going to be at 0c a lot)
  • Diesel
  • Sure Gamble
  • Career Fair (if you have Net Mercur/Xanadu)
  • Modded (if you have Rubicon Switch/Multithreader)

Cards that help us facecheck:

  • SMC
  • Clone Chip
  • Refractor, Faerie, Inti, Cyber-Cypher (dirt cheap against the right ice)
  • There’s clearly more work to be done here

Cards that sustain our econ:

  • Cloak/Net Mercur
  • Multithreader
  • Technical Writer

Cards that help us win:

  • Indexing
  • The Turning Wheel
  • Clot

Interestingly, neither Xanadu nor Rubicon Switch appear in those categories. I’m either missing a category or those cards aren’t actually all that important. HMMM I’ll leave it as an exercise to you, dear reader, or until I post again.


#56

This easily could have been an article, and you’ve definitely made me a convert. Rubicon sounds like a hoot. I can’t wait to get wrecked on Jinteki.


#57

Ok, here’s the list I’m going to play tonight, based on the preceding theory.

Some notes on specific cards:

  • Scavenge: Great for reloading Lady, or swapping a Cyber-Cypher that we popped to get out of a sticky spot on Server A to Server B, where the real party is. Also does a Clone Chip impression with an unnecessary program as fodder (maybe Misdirection, depending on the matchup).
  • Trope: Our great hope for not running out of gas in the late game. Key cards to shuffle back include: Indexing, Peace, Clone Chip (sometimes)
  • Egret: Works wonders with a high strength Study Guide, but can also open up unsuspecting sentries or code gates to getting broken cheaply by Lady. Clone Chip/SMC shenanigans with this card apply as usual.
  • Faerie: Only 3 influence??? Being able to break a nasty sentry on the cheap gives us a lot more confidence in our early runs, which is very important for this deck.
  • Misdirection: Ok, so if you have this card and two Multithreaders (not unreasonable, you do want to get 2x Multithreader at least installed), you can snap your fingers and make Hard-Hitting News tags go away for free. Neat!

I’ll update with some match notes after field testing, if I can read them through my veil of bitter tears.

###[Gator Guide 2][1] (45 cards)

  • [Nasir Meidan: Cyber Explorer][2]

Event (15)

  • 2 [Build Script][3] ●●
  • 3 [Diesel][4]
  • 2 [Indexing][5]
  • 2 [Modded][6]
  • 2 [Peace in Our Time][7] ●●
  • 1 [Scavenge][8]
  • 3 [Sure Gamble][9]

Hardware (5)

  • 2 [Astrolabe][10]
  • 3 [Clone Chip][11]

Resource (6)

  • 1 [Beth Kilrain-Chang][12]
  • 3 [Technical Writer][13]
  • 2 [The Turning Wheel][14] ●●

Icebreaker (6)

  • 1 [Cerberus “Lady” H1][15]
  • 1 [Cyber-Cypher][16]
  • 1 [Faerie][17] ●●●
  • 1 [Inti][18]
  • 1 [Na’Not’K][19]
  • 1 [Study Guide][20]

Program (13)

  • 3 [Dhegdheer][21]
  • 2 [Egret][22]
  • 1 [Misdirection][23]
  • 3 [Multithreader][24] ●●●
  • 3 [Self-modifying Code][25]
  • 1 [Trope][26] ●●●

Built with [https://meteor.stimhack.com/][27]
[1]: https://meteor.stimhack.com/decks/tu9ERFsuk7uzLMxP5
[2]: https://meteor.stimhack.com/card/nasir-meidan-cyber-explorer-upstalk
[3]: https://meteor.stimhack.com/card/build-script-station-one
[4]: https://meteor.stimhack.com/card/diesel-revised-core
[5]: https://meteor.stimhack.com/card/indexing-revised-core
[6]: https://meteor.stimhack.com/card/modded-revised-core
[7]: https://meteor.stimhack.com/card/peace-in-our-time-quorum
[8]: https://meteor.stimhack.com/card/scavenge-creation-and-control
[9]: https://meteor.stimhack.com/card/sure-gamble-revised-core
[10]: https://meteor.stimhack.com/card/astrolabe-up-and-over
[11]: https://meteor.stimhack.com/card/clone-chip-creation-and-control
[12]: https://meteor.stimhack.com/card/beth-kilrain-chang-blood-money
[13]: https://meteor.stimhack.com/card/technical-writer-data-and-destiny
[14]: https://meteor.stimhack.com/card/the-turning-wheel-the-liberated-mind
[15]: https://meteor.stimhack.com/card/cerberus-lady-h1-all-that-remains
[16]: https://meteor.stimhack.com/card/cyber-cypher-creation-and-control
[17]: https://meteor.stimhack.com/card/faerie-revised-core
[18]: https://meteor.stimhack.com/card/inti-creation-and-control
[19]: https://meteor.stimhack.com/card/nanotk-free-mars
[20]: https://meteor.stimhack.com/card/study-guide-breaker-bay
[21]: https://meteor.stimhack.com/card/dhegdheer-terminal-directive
[22]: https://meteor.stimhack.com/card/egret-terminal-directive
[23]: https://meteor.stimhack.com/card/misdirection-martial-law
[24]: https://meteor.stimhack.com/card/multithreader-data-and-destiny
[25]: https://meteor.stimhack.com/card/self-modifying-code-creation-and-control
[26]: https://meteor.stimhack.com/card/trope-old-hollywood
[27]: https://meteor.stimhack.com/decks/tu9ERFsuk7uzLMxP5


#58

Here are some things that were very problematic:

  • Tithonium: 9 rez? Great! Very hard to break w/o Paperclip, though. And no Egret.
  • Pup + Ash + a mountain of Corp credits: GG, no re.
  • SEA Source: oh no
  • Any defensive upgrade that requires us to have credits at the end of the run
  • Wormhole: ZERO REZ aaargh
  • Running out of MU a lot (even with 3 Dheg)

I am happy to report that I made several awesome glory runs in 3-iced remotes with like 5c to start. The ice really does pay you to get in the first time! Just hope there isn’t an Ash or a Batty or Red Herrings, etc, at the end of the ice, because you’ll be broke.

There are definitely some things that could be improved here, but honestly, modern Runners need to have money all the time because Corps have a variety of ways to threaten you that you need cash on hand to deal with. If the average Corp deck was just ice and agendas, Nasir would be a lot more capable of doing his thing. It’s been fun cyber exploring, but I miss just having cash and breakers. Thanks for indulging me.


#59

When I was playing one of these broke-ass Nasir builds, I used to keep 2 Caches in the deck. These allow some cash stockpiling mid-run, coincidentally just enough to trash Ash. Ghost Runner is the other option, but not as flexible. Easy replacements: -2 Build Script, +2 Cache.

Be the only runner who sometimes keeps dollahs on Cache.


#60

I’m trying to think through Nasir from the POV of the current meta.

Top Corps right now:

CI - Multiple variants, but need to go fast, preferably threaten Clot, not give up easy Stinson triggers, and survive brain rewiring.

CtM - Have to be able to kill key assets. If you don’t have a way to dodge/clear tags and/or lots of money, you will get tagged and punished hard. (Several ice with very low rez cost.)

AgInfusion (Hydra) - Can’t let terrible assets run or get set up.Must be able to break big ice repeatedly.

PU - Cards are hit points. Need a plan to steal Obokata.

When I look at this range of Corps, I confess I am at a bit of a loss as to how Nasir can build any deck that can present a credible threat to all of them. The restriction on Shaper cards and loss of key other cards (Workshop, Parasite) make it very difficulty to think about a build that is above tier 2 or 3.

Part of my personal struggle is that I think I’m trying to build a “good Shaper deck” and stick Nasir on top of it, but that seems to be impossible to do with him.

How do you leverage his ability in game play and then build a deck around that style of play?