Yeah, these decks are goddamn strong, but it seems like if the Runner knows the match up well enough for their deck, they can sort of sit back and let you score a few points, then complete demolish you. I went undefeated in 5 swiss rounds with a butchershop decklist this weekend (here) but in the top 8 cut I lost twice with it against really strong opponents.
Highlight of the tournament for me was an extremely close game against @kiv in the third losers bracket. I was on 6 points with Breaking News in hand, but a turn prior he went tag-me against my Gutenburg on R&D and got a solid Medium lock on me. All I could do was hope he whiffed (which he didn’t). Such a great game.
I can’t type up a list at work but the one I took to regionals had:
0 PAD
1 Priv Cont
2 Traffic Accident
1 Sub boost
2 Restructure
1 Archived Mem
1 Pup
If I was to go to another regionals I’d probably swap the archived for the original reclamation. Not because archived is bad, it’s actually very good, just because of plascrete density changing.
Its not about clicks to credits ratio, its about the duration of time that you generate credits, another case where clicks and net credits doesn’t play out off paper.
So you run marked accounts to get 1 credit per turn, while having to add credits to it every 3rd turn
while the runner sets up, rapidly generates more money than you, and your goal is to get a higher credit count than them? Makes sense…I’m the crazy one here.
Oh the 5 trash cost on marked is so much higher than the 5 trash cost on private contracts, makes sense. Unless of course you’re playing private unprotected, due to that first round of final result clicking for 3, the idea is early game behind 1 ice so that the breaker has to come out as an additional cost.
I can’t help but agree with this. Sure, “private contracts takes 8 clicks to net 11 credits” but then “Marked Accounts takes 11 turns and 4 clicks to net 11 credits”. If you want to have money for a Midseason threat RFN then Private Contracts can be a great answer. I found myself consistently wishing I had a way to accelerate my credit count to A) have the credit advantage sooner for +5 tag Midseason, or B) set up a small scoring remote (data raven + wraparound?) and IA a breaking news behind it. Maybe swapping Marked for Private Contracts could help do that sooner.
For reference here’s the one I played at Regionals (also undefeated in Swiss). The Restructure is way better than Private Contracts if you want money ‘right now’. A turn of install, PC x2 leaves you at +$1 which is actually $2 worse than just clicking for credits.
You can even hold Restructure in HQ, then play it and Midseason to ruin the Runner’s math if they have planned to be safe.
Is subliminal messaging good enough in Butcher Shop. It seems marginally better than PAD, in as much as there are times when runner and corp are frantically hoarding cash. Making the runner make runs before they’re ready or gaining econ advantage if they choose not to seems good. But on the flipside subliminal might be too situational, or too slow.
I was playing 3 Restructure on my SC winning list and was never dissapointed with it.
As for subliminal, now with low number of crims with secutity testing, maybe it’s worth considering.
I’m just saying why I hesitate to play Private Contracts, not saying I’m right I’m also the guy who hates drawing more than once when playing with Symmetrical Visage, even when it’s the right play. I’m usually wrong.
Such decks usually don’t play clot, so you can use SanSan to FA away from them (this is why I love to keep SanSan in NBN kill decks). You can stick raven on HQ to protect from siphon, and if they won’t clear tags, then you’ll burn them easily. And you have Sweeps Week against Andy.
Butcher Shop is very playable against Crim, it needs so little money that Siphoning cannot keep it down and they need to clear the tags. Also it’s very much possible that they don’t have a early Plascrete and then it gets rough.
Subliminal is bad, you have so little defense and the runner will keep running making sure that you don’t gain anything from it.
I think I’ve yet to lose to Butcher Shop when running Eater MaxX. Between Keyhole, Wanton and Vamp, they can never get the damage and money together to hit the flatline.
I don’t understand. Isn’t midseasons for enough the primary win con of butchers shop. You need money for that. Otherwise so long as the runner has a full hand and doesn’t let you install breaking news (which isn’t that hard if you can siphon the corp regularly).
Agreed, I also did not understand the comment about not needing money to win. When I played with Butcher Shop the money advantage was critical. If you fell behind on cash/econ engine the difficulty ramped up significantly. After a few turns, the ice is not keeping anyone out. Each iteration of the deck I was trying cut ice and added econ.
Agreed. Money is essential unless you get lucky and they run into 2xTGTBT out of Archives last click and have SE+TA+TA ready (or sometimes just SE+TA) or some such. The vast majority of the time you need to be up on econ.
But if the runner is floating tags from siphon, than you don’t need any money to midseason him! And if he will shake tags, then the benifit from siphon is not quite big for him (especially if data raven is in front of HQ).
What ice in this list is stopping the runner from Siphoning you and then clearing tags repeatedly? What about Eater MaxX builds that don’t run Account Siphon?
I’m also the guy who hates drawing more than once when playing with Symmetrical Visage, even when it’s the right play. I’m usually wrong.