New Spoilers! The Source

Unless Anarchs get more econ this cycle than just Inject, I suspect Incubator will turn out to be too expensive for a one-time thing (it trashes upon hatching). For 1 credit it would have been Gorman-level, for 2 credits it still would have been decent. 3 will be too much, since you also need the second virus (which also costs money).

Still utterly love the idea of the card, though :slight_smile:

(I guess you could take it to mean Cyberfeeder becomes more attractive :P)

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I love Incubator. Even at 3 credits, it’s just such a good Anarch card, a flexible source of pressure that the corp has to deal with otherwise it will hit them real hard. Medium and Nerve Agent obviously love it, but with Datasucker getting shut out of centrals becoming more common, both it and Parasite will be good targets too. And it gives Anarch a better game against Scorched decks, giving a benefit on the turns when you aren’t running, setting up a game winning Medium/Nerve Agent dig.

Ixodidae though just looks like a bad combo card to me. It doesn’t do anything by itself. It costs an MU. A Lamprey by itself is a difficult decision for the corp, a Lamprey and an Ixodidae is destroying four clicks of card for three clicks - it’s a much easier decision. The Noise decks that run off cheap viruses will probably use it, and I’m sure someone will try it with Mass Install, but unless we see an ID that combos with it and Lamprey I’m not a fan.

Code Siphon I’m convinced is just a massive troll against everyone :smile:.

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Actually, seeing it made me immediately start thinking about what “Trash Siphon” could look like :stuck_out_tongue:

(and if you say “it already exists, it’s called Retrieval Run”, I’ll hunt you down and eat your puppies with a little chilli sauce)

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I can definitely see the value of D4V1D, but I don’t think it does as much, ultimately, as Inject does. There’re situations where it’ll certain be of great help, but the low-ish number of Power Counters makes me hesitant. Anarch certainly has this weakness, but most of the ones that particularly worry me have more than one subroutine. Still, in looking at the Ice more, it would handle things like Grim or Taurus rather well and be decent enough with Tollbooth, even if it fails to break through Archer entirely.

D4V1D’s in third for me, with In(ject/cubator) more or less tied at the top. I think the potential threat Incubator provides and the definite econ opportunity of Inject both beat it out pretty firmly, but it’s ahead of Lamprey (probably in 4th, just in front of cu.j0).

If Earthrise is 6 cards over 3 turns, is it straight up better than Mr. Li in criminal?

Inject: “You might get some cards, or you might get some credits. We’ll see. Shit is gonna get trashed”

D4v1d: “Go ahead and facecheck with impunity. I’ll take care of Inazuma, Grim, Archer and Susanoo for ya. If you really need me, I’ll handle a Tollbooth, too.”

Dunno, seems pretty clear-cut to me :stuck_out_tongue:

(it’s true that D4v1d probably wants to be supported by some green cards, most notably Clone Chip and Scavenge. Then again, Sam says that Siphon Anarch is dead, so where’s the problem :P)

edit: In my eyes, Dave is highly superior simply because he addresses a more problematic of the two anarch issues at hand here.

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There are now only 35 cards from the whole cycle that we haven’t seen and the first pack hasn’t even released yet. Do you think that’s intentional in order to produce a stable meta in time for Worlds? i.e. everyone will have known the cards for so long that the best decks are already well developed by then.

It’s going to be a pretty spoiler-free summer, unless the FFG team debut some unseen cards at Gen Con.

As regards today’s spoilers: Incubator looks useful, but I don’t think it drastically improves Anarch’s current situation. If the runner can’t be quick, then he needs to have something going on passively to disrupt the corp - all of the current Anarch IDs have that. We’re just starting to reach a stage at which Jackson Howard isn’t an auto-include in every deck so Noise will bounce back, but there’s definitely something missing from their arsenal at the moment.

Honestly it seems like they’re just keeping to a timetable despite the delays. Previously we’d be approaching the release of the second pack, and this level of spoilage reflects that. I think the leak team’s just well ahead of whatever is keeping Upstalk from being released. I’d honestly not be terribly surprised if we start seeing stuff about the deluxe box and/or next cycle before First Contact is released.

criminal siphon is credit based, shaper siphon is program based, anarch “trash siphon” might be card based? corp trashes cards off R&D or HQ, runner draws!

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I don’t buy that Inject is amazing; throwing programs in the trash does not seem all that great. As Noise, programs are exactly what I want to be drawing, and injecting a Cache into the bin is just the worst. I guess it might be good for the other Anarchs in Siphon builds, when you’re not digging for a breaker.

I also don’t buy that Incubator will make waves. It’s dead if you draw it late, so you want more than one and you want to play it early. However, it’s expensive, so you don’t want multiples and playing it early might set you back on tempo. It also turns on Rototurret. I’m thoroughly meh about this card, but I can see its value against slow decks.

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Yes Inject throws programmes in the trash, but that turns on Clone Chip and Retrival Run and, more importantly gets you to them quicker. I’d rather have a programme in the trash where I can fetch it if needed with a whole bunch of in faction cards than in the stack where I cann’t fetch it without spending influence.

I’d rather draw them normally, use them, and then use them again with clone chip or deja vu. As Noise, I want to trigger my ability as often as possible, and I don’t want to waste uses of particular viruses (imp, parasite, cache) by binning them myself. For that reason I’ll take Wyldside over Inject any day, but I’ll be happy to be proven wrong once the card actually becomes available.

@fluffdasheep, I think you’re missing the best use case of Inject:

Most games of me playing Anarch often come to the point where I don’t want to be drawing programs anymore (whether because I already have the full suite out, or my memory is full, or whatever), and need to draw for something else. Then, what often happens is that I start drawing all these spare copies of programs that I had to put because they are needed, just not right now. And this isn’t a point in the game that’s necessarily super-late, either - let’s say you have a Medium, a Sucker, a breaker and an active Parasite, and really need a Grimoire right now. So you draw for it.

What Inject does in that situation is it filters out the programs, draws you the non-program cards, and maybe even makes you a little money on the side. Knowing you won’t spend an eternity drawing more programs seems pretty solid here, wouldn’t you think?

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Sure, I agree that Inject isn’t likely to have a place in Noise, where you want to keeping drawing into viruses and recurring them. I don’t really play that style though, I was thinking more on the lines of Siphon builds and pre-paid Whizzard builds where you often find youself digging for events or for specific breakers that you can Retrival Run/Deja Vu/Clone Chip into play. Pre-paid Whizzard in particular has Morning Star and Femme to cheat into play with RR.

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[quote=“fluffdasheep, post:31, topic:1485”]
It’s dead if you draw it late, so you want more than one and you want to play it early.
[/quote]So… run two? Datasucker’s comparatively dead as a late draw, though less so. Security Testing can be, too, depending on how late. Doesn’t mean they’re bad, just means you don’t want to play 'em early. But with Djinn, well, tutor it if you think you’re going to want it? Viruses are the one thing we can tutor as Anarch, after all.

[quote=“fluffdasheep, post:31, topic:1485”]
However, it’s expensive, so you don’t want multiples and playing it early might set you back on tempo.
[/quote]Which turns on Inject, yes? It’s not more expensive than Medium, though it does have a pretty deferred benefit. I have some hope that Anarch econ’ll be strong enough by the time it comes out that playing it early won’t be a waste. For anyone else, I think it’d be doable, and if Anarch’s economy doesn’t catch up then it’s kind of silly to worry about because there’ll be so many other threats by then anyway.

[quote=“fluffdasheep, post:31, topic:1485”]
It also turns on Rototurret. I’m thoroughly meh about this card, but I can see its value against slow decks.
[/quote]I already run 3x Mimics and I doubt that’ll change. They do a right good job of turning Rototurret back off – besides which, the whole point of Incubator is to build a threat when you’re not able to run freely. If I can just bounce off of R&D, Medium’s better on its own. If I can’t – too expensive, say – then Incubator helps build for a massive dig turn. (I really don’t think a turn of playing Medium, cracking Incubator, Demo Running R&D, running R&D is all that impossible/unlikely. Seems much more likely than just getting there with Medium alone.)

The biggest thing about it, again, is making the corp virus wipe more often. I don’t know where the sweet spot is, but after 4-5 turns it’s a fairly big threat. Either they wipe pre-emptively (slowing themselves down pretty heavily, especially if you can follow up on that hard by playing an Imp and/or Lamprey and making use of 'em), or they let it go off and wipe up the damages (at which point you’ve probably done something that puts you in a much better position).

I’ll admit that it might take until the Deluxe Box for Incubator to really shine, but I remain confident that it will shine. Playing the faction that I think is most able to slow down and disrupt the Corp makes a card that assists with that ever so useful – and it’ll do that even before cracking, or give you a chance for some fun. It’s not a card that anyone outside of Anarch would want, and it’s not going to have a place in decks without many kinds of viruses that can benefit from its use. But, used where it belongs, I think it’s going to be scaaa~ry. If not immediately, then soon.

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Also, double Incubator sounds like it’d make me wet my Corporate pants.

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Oh goodness me, yes. I don’t know why I was limiting myself to one, there. Hell, if you’ve got a Clone Chip you can bring out the Medium like that and avoid missing the double-run!

The other thing with Incubator(s) is that they make every strong position an implicit threat. Did the runner end their turn with 2-3 Incubator counters (especially if on two Incubators) and at 15~ credits (pulling money off of Kati, perhaps)? Well, I probably want to wipe viruses, just to be safe (assuming I’ve got nothing more pressing/R&D/HQ/Scoring remote aren’t all perfectly defended already).

@hypomodern

It does pair with those cards but so what. it’s more beneficial to me to replace every ixodidae with something else. In terms of credits any econ card I could replace it with will supply me with more credits than it will lose the corp. imagine the amount of vamping and siphoning you’d have to pull off to equal the value of even an armitage.

As far as a future pairing it would probably be something like city surveillance for the runners. Perhaps in the form of a current. Maybe a reverse-gorman virus in the anarch faction.

Simmer down y’all ;). I was just pointing out that there were existing cards it paired with and asking about what we’d like to see in the future, for instance:

Which is an interesting idea, but what would it threaten to give the corp unless they lose a credit? I think a straight 1c drain would be a little uber.

2 clicks for 1 credit, perhaps? Enough to provide some small amount of disruption, but not an insurmountable amount by itself. Kind of like PSF, really. Not sure it’d be good enough to see play on its own, there, but…