How about going exactly reverse? Keep EC, but drop Manups for ABT, keep SFSS, drop 2xreclamations/2xarchived for 2xfast track (or maybe drop 1xreclamation and 1xarchived?). Then the goal will be to rush an early EC to enable SFSS, which is not as manly concept as yours but it could work better in practice. Perfect use of EC counters would be to SFSS another EC, then recur SFSS and score a 5/3 from hand.
1 Like
That’s the version I have meatspace-built right now - just a straight swap of ManUp for ABT, though. Like I said, Fast Track totally isn’t needed (and dropping recursion both weakens the econ, and is a supremely bad idea if I plan to trigger ABTs, like, ever).
This is Paper Wall 2.0, taking a lot of the comments on this thread into account. The ICE mix is now very different (and now actually includes Paper Wall!). Sweeps Week is a massive accelerator if you see it first turn and you can recur it later on with Archived Memories.
I’m not sold on the 5/3 plan. I can see the advantages, but I play this fast and loose, knowing that I can afford to drop points to random accesses. Knowing that I had three-pointers in there to defend would make that more difficult I think.
NEXT Design: Guarding the Net (Creation and Control)
Agenda (11)
3x Accelerated Beta Test (Core Set)
3x Project Vitruvius (Cyber Exodus)
3x Efficiency Committee (Creation and Control)
2x Gila Hands Arcology (Creation and Control)
Operation (15)
3x Archived Memories (Core Set)
3x Biotic Labor (Core Set)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
3x Shipment from SanSan (Second Thoughts) •••
3x Sweeps Week (True Colors) ••••• •
Barrier (12)
3x Wall of Static (Core Set)
3x Eli 1.0 (Future Proof)
3x Paper Wall (Mala Tempora)
3x Wraparound (Fear and Loathing) •••
Code Gate (6)
3x Enigma (Core Set)
3x NEXT Bronze (Opening Moves)
Sentry (5)
2x Rototurret (Core Set)
3x Guard (Honor and Profit)
12 influence spent (maximum 12)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Honor and Profit
Fast track might be useless when you were going for one early agenda out of 6 (MU/EC was fine in your build). When you MUST score that EC first, I think it would rock (and also help you grab another EC to chain them). Can’t comment on recursion, cause I didn’t do any playtesting. How about dropping one inazuma and one recursion card? And use the 2 influence to boost the ice package.
I think this build is reasonable vs. criminal because it instantly protects all centrals - which severely weakens their run-based economy and delays the arrival of breakers. I think Shapers and Anarchs ruin it though as they are more adaptable. PPVP burst economy decks will just gain $9, tutor the right breaker and get on with tearing you apart.
The low strength ICE means that everything is within Parasite range and even the fixed-strength breakers can beat any ICE for 1 or 0 without Datasucker counters (except Eli which can be clicked through and Static which needs a DS counter or $1 with Corroder). Nothing taxes here, so once the breakers show up you are dead in the water unless you have already scored an Efficiency Committee and can score everything from hand with SfSS.
I think I prefer a mix of ICE like Ichi, Archer and Tollbooth to tax the runner in the late game. I would still play Pri Req (or Project Wotan if the ICE mix is sutable) because the deck space is really important. Remember, playing 5/3s doesn’t change the agenda density of the deck, so the expectation value of a successful run is still the same - it just changes the variance.
Having to score 5/3s is fine for the Corp if your servers are taxing. You clearly can’t play them if the runner can get in anywhere for $3. So the agenda mix needs to complement the ICE suite (and/or other protective measures like Ash).
The build David is proposing just looks like it would work much better out of EtF.
2 Likes
Amusingly, my playtesting this morning has been entirely against PPVP Shaper out of Kate and I won everytime. But it’s entirely unscientific. I agree that Shaper is the worst match-up if they are aggressive and have an idea what you are planning. Anarchs are less of an issue, unless they are using Overmind. They can’t tutor up their rig fast enough in my experience.
You say it would work better out of ETF. I don’t agree. The thing that makes this deck work (and work is relative, if I wanted to win a tournament it’s not what I’d use, not yet anyway) is sheer outright aggression. It’s click 1 hedge/sweeps, click 2 second ICE (different type) on remote, click 3 ABT into the remote. Then it’s score ABT for free ICE on centrals. Turn 3, get money, stick another agenda in the remote if it hasn’t been compromised. ETF can’t pressure that fast without leaving HQ open to Siphon or R&D to Indexing.
Once they get their full rig they can get in anywhere. Hence “Paper Wall”. Towards the end you’re playing a “draw x4 until I find a 3/2 to FA and win next turn” game. Living on the edge doesn’t quite describe it!
1 Like
I like it overall, just two comments:
- Guard is overpriced for what it does (basically, its only function is to save your ABT plan if you don’t get another piece of ICE and they use an Inside Job without a Faerie. After that it’s a dead card… I dunno, man). Ditch it for Ichi of either variety (depending on your confidence level in your own econ).
- The Wraparounds feel a tad out of place to me. You already have a bunch of other cheap barriers that become inconsequential with a fracter, I’d be tempted to take something else instead (both for the slots and for the influence). Swordsman could be hilarious.
Possibly… which ICE would you take, though?
1 Like
This is what comes to my mind:
NEXT Design: Guarding the Net (Creation and Control)
Agenda (9)
3x Accelerated Beta Test (Core Set)
1x Project Vitruvius (Cyber Exodus)
3x Efficiency Committee (Creation and Control)
2x Project Wotan (Creation and Control)
Operation (16)
3x Archived Memories (Core Set)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
3x Successful Demonstration (Creation and Control)
3x Shipment from SanSan (Second Thoughts) •••
3x Blue Level Clearance (Fear and Loathing)
1x Fast Track (Honor and Profit)
Barrier (8)
3x Ice Wall (Core Set) •••
3x Wall of Static (Core Set)
2x Wraparound (Fear and Loathing) ••
Code Gate (5)
3x NEXT Bronze (Opening Moves)
2x Inazuma (Honor and Profit) ••••
Sentry (8)
3x Ichi 1.0 (Core Set)
2x Rototurret (Core Set)
3x Ichi 2.0 (Creation and Control)
ICE (2)
2x Chimera (Cyber Exodus)
12 influence spent (maximum 12)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
48 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Honor and Profit
With NEXT ability and one Fast Track you should be able to rush EC first. My only concern is finding that first SFSS. If they hide below agendas you will get flooded, and without jackson it will be soon over…
1 Like
On Guard, I agree it’s overcosted. But it isn’t in there for the ability. It’s in because it’s a hard End the Run on a sentry, and other than Rototurret and Fenris there aren’t any of those that cost zero influence (Rototurret dies instantly to parasite, hence only two).
I don’t agree on Wraparound. It forces decks that use AI breakers/parasites rather than a full rig to play my game and have to spend time to go find a fracter. A Swordsman might be a good trick card, but without a hard ETR I think it would be a one of at most.
You’re right that 4 cost seems to be the bottom price for Sentry bonks. I was playing Fenris in my deck (that also had punitives) because the BP was offset by the increased ease of getting a flatline. I would say though, that roto and fenris shine over guard for everything except for trying to bum rush an agenda (just seeing the opponent playing blue often means you have to respect Femme and Inside Job, often having to wait till your servers are 2-3 deep before you start scoring). I really like rototurret, its not like Guard will put up much of a fight against parasites, and roto is twice as taxing for the same cost.
NEXT really has way too many ICE for AI decks to keep up with, but Datasucker/Atman (even Darwin gets expensive quickly) walking right in the front door is an actual concern. Datasucker does mean that there will likely be parasites, but I think the biggest concern is taking out suckers (though you have enough ICE that they might not have a free server to charge them on). That said, Power Shutdown is a totally valid splash, aiming to shoot datasuckers or whatever else is vulnerable.
I agree about wraparound, but the one breaker many full-AI decks take is a cheap fracter (both for wraparound, and because NBN fast advance often plays oodles of barriers), making splashing for wraparound when you’re playing plenty of other cheap ETR, perhaps overkill.
2 Likes
If Parasite/Sucker is a concern, isn’t a 25ish ICE deck with recursion that can ICE all Centrals before the game begins a good counter?
4 Likes
Not only is Roto more taxing than Guard, its subroutines matter much more if triggered.
I’ve made a variety of changes to my initial deck, the most important of which are -Snare! +Biotic, and -Eve +Melange.
The Biotics give me a better late-game option than relying on mindgames, and are also really useful for hitting that first ABT. I also went to 3 JH with the extra influence, which lets me trigger ABTs more often. The deck has gained a really strong gameplan of “chaining” ABTs by using the ICE from one to prepare for the next. I still wouldn’t trigger without Jackson out, and you can definitely win even if they fizzle, but it works great when it works. I also started over-advancing Vitruvius when I get the chance, because that counter is great for grabbing whatever you need late-game.
Melange is fabulous economy in a deck with a lot of ice. You can bootstrap up a big server by alternately defending and clicking Melange, and eventually use that as a scoring server. Alternatively, it can take you from zero to Biotic in one turn.
I also made some improvements (I think) to my ICE suite, but there are probably further improvements to be made.
NEXT Design: Guarding the Net (Creation and Control)
Agenda (10)
3x Accelerated Beta Test (Core Set)
1x Efficiency Committee (Creation and Control)
3x NAPD Contract (Double Time)
3x Project Vitruvius (Cyber Exodus)
Asset (9)
3x Adonis Campaign (Core Set)
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves) •••
3x Melange Mining Corp. (Core Set)
Upgrade (2)
2x Ash 2X3ZB9CY (What Lies Ahead)
Operation (6)
3x Biotic Labor (Core Set)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
Barrier (8)
3x Eli 1.0 (Future Proof)
2x Heimdall 1.0 (Core Set)
2x Heimdall 2.0 (Creation and Control)
1x Wraparound (Fear and Loathing) •
Code Gate (9)
2x Quandary (Double Time)
2x Tollbooth (Core Set) ••••
1x Viktor 1.0 (Core Set)
1x Viktor 2.0 (Creation and Control)
3x Viper (Cyber Exodus)
Sentry (5)
2x Caduceus (What Lies Ahead) ••••
2x Ichi 2.0 (Creation and Control)
1x Rototurret (Core Set)
12 influence spent (max 12)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Double Time
Deck built on http://netrunnerdb.com.
3 Likes
28 ICE! Love it. Just a little worried that you won’t have enough cash initially to actually protect all of your servers, esp. the money one.
1 Like
yeah Melange is dope in NEXT. I’m not a big fan of Heimdall 1 in this deck. If you get your melange, then its probably good. But otherwise, because in most cases its just a scary looking wall of static, that you are going to be too cash strapped to want to rez it.
1 Like
From my own experiences running a 28 Ice NEXT Deck:
-Take another Efficiency Committee, they’re super useful for making full use of Melange.
-If you can, overscore Vitruvius before using ABT, then use the ability whiele you’re relatively safe.
-Heimdall 1.0 is likely to be less useful than 2.0, generally.
-Similarly, Viktor 1.0 and 2.0, as 1.0 is Yoggable.
-That many code gates leaves you super-weak to Kit w/ Yogasaurus. While they’re all good, snag some Walls of Static or Ichi 1.0s to supplement, I’d say.
-Consider at least a one-of Chimera – it can be pricy in the long run, but can also help rush out an early Agenda.
-I question the value of Ash, here. Perhaps your servers can be sufficiently taxing, but sinking money into it seems less effective than adding more Ice to the server, and your econ isn’t 100% solid.
-Paper Wall is actually pretty damn useful for the first few turns.
-Consider, even as a one-of, an AggSec to reset the game later on, once your servers are cracked and your econ unable to catch up.
That said, this looks interesting!
EDIT: Yeah, not 28 Ice at all… s’what I get for not counting myself. Still, I think most of the above still applies. The Code Gate issue even moreso, though Yogasaurus Kit isn’t exactly tearing up the tournament circuit.
2 Likes
I am deeply confused. Why does everyone think I’m running 28 ice? I’m still at 22…
Good thoughts, though!
Turns out that being able to add and subtract is a prerequisite for playing next design.
5 Likes
LOL, whoops. Counted the operations!
We really WANT you to run 28 ICE!
6 Likes
I spent several hours today with a good friend playing ANR, and I spent the vast majority testing many NEXT Design builds. It’s fascinating how many directions and decisions are involved in building NEXT decks, which is instantly obvious with the diversity of the decks posted in this thread. Ultimately, I think it boils down to the following question:
Do I want to use NEXT’s ability to force through agendas quickly, or do I want a head start in building large taxing servers?
This basically answers all further questions you may ask. The former choice means binary ice, operation econ, etc; whereas the latter gives you much better ABTs and sacrifices a bit of early aggression for a more sturdy foundation past midgame. I see users such as @Apo, @bayushi_david, @Crunchums, and @xerxes have elected the former, whereas @peterbb and @PeekaySK have elected to go a more taxing route not completely dissimilar to Red Coats.
Both routes have some considerable strengths. My concern is that due to the prevalence of both Shaper and Criminal, both also have gaping weaknesses. What I want to ask is, is there a way to combine the two? If we can have enough burst economy and cheap ice to sufficiently protect us early game, while being able to prevent an R&D lock and chain ABTs later on, I think we’ll have the ideal NEXT deck.
On a somewhat related note, here’s the deck I had the most success with today against Gabe, Andy, and Kate. Interestingly, it attempts to incorporate elements from both archetypes, though it’s only in the initial stages of development.
NEXT Design: Guarding the Net (Creation and Control)
Agenda (10)
2x Accelerated Beta Test (Core Set)
3x Efficiency Committee (Creation and Control)
2x NAPD Contract (Double Time)
3x Project Vitruvius (Cyber Exodus)
Asset (2)
2x Melange Mining Corp. (Core Set)
Operation (12)
2x Biotic Labor (Core Set)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
1x Reclamation Order (Double Time)
3x Shipment from SanSan (Second Thoughts) •••
3x Successful Demonstration (Creation and Control)
Barrier (8)
3x Eli 1.0 (Future Proof)
1x Heimdall 1.0 (Core Set)
2x Paper Wall (Mala Tempora)
2x Wall of Static (Core Set)
Code Gate (8)
3x NEXT Bronze (Opening Moves)
3x Pop-up Window (Cyber Exodus) •••
2x Viktor 2.0 (Creation and Control)
Sentry (6)
3x Caduceus (What Lies Ahead) ••••••
1x Guard (Honor and Profit)
2x Ichi 2.0 (Creation and Control)
Other (3)
3x Chimera (Cyber Exodus)
12 influence spent (max 12)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Honor and Profit
25 Ice. @PeekaySK, you’re spot-on about early agenda floods. No matter how many or few agendas, it’s not uncommon to have 6+ AP in HQ by the end of turn one. My best solution has been to drop an ABT in favor of a NAPD, and to attempt to rush out an agenda early so it doesn’t sit in HQ. Jackson and Rework weren’t as efficient as I had hoped in resolving this problem. This deck’s primary focus is to score an Efficiency Committee as quickly as possible behind 2-3 ice (or a double overscored Vitruvius if EC isn’t available). Only initiate ABT if you have an overscored Vitruvius. 3 Hedge Fund and 3 Successful Demonstration are the perfect amount of early econ, coupled with Caduceus and Pop-Up Windows. Finally, Melange and taxing ice assist in shoring up R&D defense.
6 Likes