Nisei Division - Can It Be Competitive?

[Apo]

I assembled this deck really quick and had a few games on OCTGN with it. So far won 4/4 with two scorch flatlines and two victories on points. People were hating on Nisei Division's potential, but I think it might hold up.

What do you think about the first draft? Agendas defend themselves, caprice goes to wherever she is needed the most and cerebral casts often force brain dmg which is not very nice against jinteki. Fundraiser is a fourth hedge fund, I'll play it if I really need the cash or if it gives me fundraiser->cast->scorch kill.

http://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/5141/psi-madness
Nisei Division: The Next Generation (Honor and Profit)

Agenda (9)
3x Fetal AI (Trace Amount)
3x NAPD Contract (Double Time)
3x The Future Perfect (Honor and Profit)

Asset (3)
3x Snare! (Core Set)

Upgrade (8)
2x Ash 2X3ZB9CY (What Lies Ahead) ••••
3x Hokusai Grid (Humanity's Shadow)
3x Caprice Nisei (Double Time)

Operation (14)
2x Scorched Earth (Core Set) ••••• •••
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
3x Celebrity Gift (Opening Moves)
2x Subliminal Messaging (Fear and Loathing)
3x Cerebral Cast (Honor and Profit)
1x Medical Research Fundraiser (Honor and Profit)

Barrier (4)
1x Wall of Thorns (Core Set)
3x Snowflake (What Lies Ahead)

Code Gate (3)
1x RSVP (True Colors) ••
1x Yagura (Fear and Loathing)
1x Inazuma (Honor and Profit)

Sentry (8)
1x Neural Katana (Core Set)
1x Shadow (Core Set) •
3x Tsurugi (True Colors)
1x Komainu (Honor and Profit)
2x Pup (Honor and Profit)

15 influence spent (maximum 15)
21 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Honor and Profit

[LeoLancer]

Have you considered Punitive Counterstrike? PC works so well with Fetal AI and 3-pointers in general. Maybe drop one SE?

Only one Inazuma?! It's quite possibly the best Code Gate in the game. The only drawback is that it can't be the last ICE. Other than that, it's always taxing (5 for Gordian Blade, 2 'Sucker tokens with Yog), and can potentially do nasty things when placed in front of damaging ICE. Seriously, I'd never run less than two in Jinteki, and I'm seriously considering splashing it OOF.

[PeekaySK]

@Apo Interesting, my first draft is actually rather similar to yours:

Deadly Games

Nisei Division: The Next Generation (Honor and Profit)

Agenda (9)
3x Fetal AI (Trace Amount)
3x NAPD Contract (Double Time)
3x The Future Perfect (Honor and Profit)

Asset (8)
2x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves) ••
3x Snare! (Core Set)
3x Sundew (Mala Tempora)

Upgrade (2)
2x Caprice Nisei (Double Time)

Operation (12)
3x Celebrity Gift (Opening Moves)
3x Cerebral Cast (Honor and Profit)
1x Closed Accounts (Core Set) •
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
2x Scorched Earth (Core Set) ••••• •••

Barrier (5)
2x Himitsu-Bako (Opening Moves)
2x Snowflake (What Lies Ahead)
1x Wall of Thorns (Core Set)

Code Gate (7)
2x Chum (Core Set)
2x Inazuma (Honor and Profit)
1x Shiro (Honor and Profit)
2x Yagura (Fear and Loathing)

Sentry (6)
2x Data Raven (Core Set) ••••
2x Neural Katana (Core Set)
2x Tsurugi (True Colors)

15 influence spent (max 15)
21 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Honor and Profit

This is the list I've been playing since H&P got rezzed on OCTGN, so far it was rather workable. At times I did wish I was PE instead, but most of the times I got over 10 credits per game out of that ability, and it's rather good at stopping attrition runs on Caprice etc.

[karmaportrait]

I agree with what @LeoLancer has to say above

• Punitive may be better because it doesn't require the runner to be tagged, which can only happen here via Snare or a combo of Cerebral Cast + win psi guess + they take tag + Scorched in hand + no Plascrete. And with only two Scorched in the deck.. it seems like this is an outside chance. Punitive is only two influence vs 4 for SE. Maybe a Closed Accounts or two for tag punishment if you don't go 3x Punitive.
• Also if you're really looking to flatline I think a Philotic Entanglement swapped out for an NAPD is worthwhile

[karmaportrait]

FWIW db0 just posted his own Nisei deck on netrunnerdb. It also has 2x SE, no Punitive.

[hypomodern]

db0's also has whirlpool into bullfrog, which is cute but confusing .

[PeekaySK]

I feel like his version is a very rough first cut, way less optimized than either of our lists. Have to say though, the Reclamation Orders are a good idea, I'll have to try fitting them into mine, somehow. Data Ravens are too useful in general to just drop, though

[Apo]

Have you considered Punitive Counterstrike? PC works so well with Fetal AI and 3-pointers in general. Maybe drop one SE?

PC is an interesting suggestion. Now I'm tempted to drop Scorches altogether and run 3xPC and 1of Closed Accounts (I really missed CA one game, the runner went tagme with plascretes installed).

Only one Inazuma?! It's quite possibly the best Code Gate in the game. The only drawback is that it can't be the last ICE. Other than that, it's always taxing (5 for Gordian Blade, 2 'Sucker tokens with Yog), and can potentially do nasty things when placed in front of damaging ICE. Seriously, I'd never run less than two in Jinteki, and I'm seriously considering splashing it OOF.

Well I feel my Inazuma is wasted if not placed in front of Katana, Komainu or Tsurugi - so ability to play it is conditional. Also if dealing with instant parasite decks it could be made completely blank. Another thing is I run RSVP so I already have 2 positional ice in a 15-ice deck, I wouldn't dare to disturb this ratio even more. Maybe -1 RSVP, -1 Shadow, +1 Komainu, +1 Inazuma would justify it, but I really like RSVP in this deck and want to test it a little more. BTW only the first encounter with inazuma costs 5c with Gordian, subsequent will cost 4c (which still is a lot!).

2x Snowflake (What Lies Ahead)

I'd go for 3 of them, this proved to be an amazing ice. People either break it for 2c wich is a great value for 1c rez cost, or it will net me 1c otherwise (0 bet on psi game). Also if I really need to I could get unpredictable with the bet and try to end the run.

2x Data Raven (Core Set) ••••

This makes your Scorches way stronger than in my deck. But I feel that flatlines are good only as a secondary win condition, not sure if Caprice is enough to provide consistent scoring windows. That's why I splashed for Ash and RSVP - those cards make my scoring stronger.

3x Sundew (Mala Tempora)

That's an interesting econ choice - might be very irritating behind an early Snowflake . In my deck I went with Subliminals and 1of Fundraiser for consistency reasons - they will never get randomly trashed.

Maybe a Closed Accounts or two for tag punishment

Agreed!

Also if you're really looking to flatline I think a Philotic Entanglement swapped out for an NAPD is worthwhile

Don't think so. Philotic Entanglement is good with a lot of 1 pointers, here it wouldn't do much.

db0's also has whirlpool into bullfrog, which is cute but confusing .

Well the list is surprising . But I really like the Reclamation Order. Splashed as a 1of would reenable the Cerebral Casts - thats a LOT of brain damage or Closed Accounts -> scoring window otherwise.

[PeekaySK]

I don't want 3 copies of Snowflake simply because I want Barrier variety (and yes, I know how good it is, I've been championing it since it came out and people started trashing it ). If I turn out to be too poor to rez that Wall of Thorns with regularity, that will become the third Snowflake. So far, this has not been the case though.

[Apo]

@SneakySly

Could you pls change the category to Deck Archetypes? I think it would be the best fit, for some reason I couldn't select it when creating the thread.

[JeremyLarner]

Inazuma should never cost more than 4c with Gordian. There is never a good reason to break both subs on Inazuma (ok, never is a bit strong - if you're using Yog.0, sure, and maybe Snitch, I guess?). Generally though, it's a misplay to break more than 1 of Inazuma's subs.

[LeoLancer]

Well I feel my Inazuma is wasted if not placed in front of Katana, Komainu or Tsurugi - so ability to play it is conditional. Also if dealing with instant parasite decks it could be made completely blank. Another thing is I run RSVP so I already have 2 positional ice in a 15-ice deck, I wouldn't dare to disturb this ratio even more. Maybe -1 RSVP, -1 Shadow, +1 Komainu, +1 Inazuma would justify it, but I really like RSVP in this deck and want to test it a little more. BTW only the first encounter with inazuma costs 5c with Gordian, subsequent will cost 4c (which still is a lot!).

Good point about Parasite, it could really mess up Inazuma. However, I don't see how it's wasted by placing it in front of a non-damaging ICE. Sure it won't hurt the runner anymore, but how is that different than any taxing, etr Code Gate? (Actually there aren't too many of those, which is part of the reason I like Inazuma.)

Inazuma should never cost more than 4c with Gordian. There is never a good reason to break both subs on Inazuma (ok, never is a bit strong - if you're using Yog.0, sure, and maybe Snitch, I guess?). Generally though, it's a misplay to break more than 1 of Inazuma's subs.

Yep, totally true. I forgot about that. Still taxes for a (relatively) hefty cost.

[groober]

On the subject of Inazuma, I have found it's still v. impressive, even in front of non-painful ice. For example, I've been working with a P.E. tax build and even having it in front of an Eli on my most recent game-night seemed to work wonders.

[LeoLancer]

How interesting. Inazuma ---> Eli was very effective in a recent game as mine as well (though I was the Runner, and much less enthused as a result ). And another funny thing, it costs the same to break as Eli (4 for Corroder/Gordian Blade). And we all know how good Eli is.

[PeekaySK]

it costs the same to break as Eli (4 for Corroder/Gordian Blade)

No, Eli costs 1 to break.

(if you're smart and have started running Morning Star because of all these barriers too expensive for Corroder to break conveniently )

[Apo]

Last night played 4 Niesei Division games against different opponents from my area, haven't lost any of them. Current version drops the Scorches, Hokusais and Snares for 3xShock!, 3xPunitive, 2xClosed Accounts. I also swapped 1xShadow for 1xEli. Shocks in the archives make it possible to hide Future Perfect there against non milling runners if needed. You can't go wrong with dealing some net dmg, gaining a cred and preventing the agenda liberation .

Haven't faced any milling tactics though. It might be a tough matchup, probably some recusion needs to go into the deck to further assist Shocks... Jackson would be obvious, but I really like the idea of fitting Reclamation Orders here. It could have various usages - fetch some parasited ice, recycle Cerebral Casts, economy or grab the milled agendas.

[chrsjxn]

I'm trying this out with more copies of RSVP. Depending on the mix of assets and upgrades in your deck an early RSVP stops the runner from being able to score or trash cards (barring keyhole, imp, demo run.).

I made the swap mostly because when I play I find I don't often have enough money to make Ash really useful, but it's been solid in the few games I've played so far. (Runners seem to have a lot more money now than they used to.)

[false_idol]

My guess, for a competitive Nisei deck, you have to look at how you can make these cards (and by extension, the ID) work in a deliberate and beneficial way. I Don't think that using this ID just to cram in a bunch of psi cards is directly beneficial (The same way that Stronger Together isn't about just cramming in bioroids, its about taking the ones that get a lot better at +1 strength). To that end, I see two ways to manipulate these cards. Snowflake and Bullfrog, because you will always gain 1 at the end, can be made into a ghetto pop-up window, knowing that the runner will have to spend 1-2 credits to pass, and you just never bet credits (except maybe to keep them on their toes from time to time), and you will always net 1 credit. There is something to be said for a deck with 12 pop-up windows (even if there is a bit more cost upfront to set up). Secondly, because you have limited influence over the runner's credit pool (being able to bully them into spending 2 or fail the psi, I think you would want trashable assets, preferably high trash, that between your Caprice shenanigans, have a lot of power to make runs fruitless. (spending 7 to trash private contracts?) The more you can keep the runner poor, the more power you have with psi bets, but I would try not to look at them as a 2/3 gamble and more as cards you can exploit to generate credits from. As for your other psi cards, I would avoid packing them in as psi for the sake of psi, see how your decklist shakes out and include them if you would have included them in a similar deck with a different ID.

[PeekaySK]

Snowflake and Bullfrog, because you will always gain 1 at the end, can be made into a ghetto pop-up window, knowing that the runner will have to spend 1-2 credits to pass, and you just never bet credits (except maybe to keep them on their toes from time to time), and you will always net 1 credit.

You do realize that if you both spend 0, the runner passes the game, right? So Snowflake and co. become "either bet 0 and gain a credit as the only effect, or bet different and have it work". Snowflake is still decent as a pseudo-popup, Bullfrog not so much though (because of the higher rez cost).

[false_idol]

Hrmph, yeah, I always get it in my head that they work differently than they do. Yeah there's no real economic return on the psi ice. I still think they might be okay for manipulating the runners credits, but I'm not sure of the advantage compared to generally taxing ice