mostly because in most noise decks draw isn’t an issue. Wyldside or diggers delivers viruses and deja vu in sufficient frequency that the additional frequency of clone is not worth the influence cost.
Additionally, many nose decks have switched to a cache economy at which deja is superior.
Additionally clone is similar to scavenge, scavenge is superior if recovering David crypsis.
Clone superior with stimhack in which rolé it competes with pw.
So to sum up, is not because it’s not a good choice -it is. It’s just that there are so many good choices.
With Inject you can pretty comfortably go down to 2 Aesop and 2 Grimoire. It’s also great for another problem I sometimes run into, not having a parasite in the top 20 cards. If you can dig hard with inject and just knock that first parasite into archives for Deja Vu and Clone Chip, you’re set.
You go through the top 4 cards no matter what. Got the console you needed, or that Sure Gamble? Great! Otherwise, you either drew a bunch or got more money – but no matter what, you’re 4 cards closer to finding whatever you’re looking for.
If you need to dig for specific programs and have no recursion, yeah, it’s not the card for you. Most anarch decks don’t have that problem, and so it remains useful.
The reason Anarchs can even think of playing Inject is because we don’t have the ability to run small suites of programs/breakers. My standard Anarch “breaker” suite is 9-11 programs, bare minimum, most of which I don’t really need. Slap some recursion for the rare niche use, and Inject is there to help me find all those non-program cards my deck so desperately needs – like Desperado and Security Testing and Cyberfeeder and more economy.
This way, at least, my 3 mimics aren’t completely pointless. They’re Inject-proofing. Better than before, where they were just net damage protection.
Yes, entirely agreed - except most Noise decks do run very small breaker suites, with other important programs that are one-shot (Parasite, D4v1d, Cache, arguably Knight) or utility (Datascucker, Sahasrara, Scheherazade) en masse (because they mill, are economy, or they’re powerful but one-shot). The breakers are typically AI, with a rare Corrodor/Mimic added to support the AI. Crypsis, Knight, Darwin, Wyrm and Atman are all common choices. A typical Noise deck probably has about 5-7 ice breakers. The opening post had 6 (3 Darwin, 3 Knight). Would Inject slot into that deck neatly? (Possibly - it runs 3 clone chips already.)
Ironically, most Noise decks are anti-Inject proofed: the things they don’t want to draw more than once are resources/hardware, not programs.
I’ll give Inject a shot (pun intended). Adding some Same Old Things and/or Clone Chips, and relying on Crypsis/Parasite (which you can Deja Vu back if you trash them) could certainly work.
yes yes yes. the Noise I’ve been playing for the past 4 months has 3 breakers - 1 each. I can Scavenge or Deja Vu out of heap in an emergency, but I’d prefer to save those for other things. Wyldside does a fine job of getting me the cards I want; I just don’t think I will be playing Inject in Noise Shop, ever. it’s definitely a strong card, just not suited to my style of Noise/Shop deck. If I am going to play Noise over Reina, Quetzal, or Whizzard, I want to take full advantage of his ability, and as others have mentioned, that means getting multiple mills out of every virus in my deck. It’s not about decking the Corporation; it’s about denying them cards. If you hit 3 Virus with Inject, which isn’t impossible in a program-heavy Noise Shop build like my own, you essentially saved the Corporation 3 cards. I would prefer not to save them anything!
There are many times when i played noise where i thought: i need to draw card x (Parasite, D4v1d, medium, aesop, crypsis,…) to be able to pressure the Corp hard and efficient. Most of the times, when i draw that card, it wins game. When i dont draw that card, i dont pressure enough, and fast advance wins unless i geht very lucky Mills.
So thats the Situation where inject really improves noise. I dunno about your Corp players, but good ones here take advantage of a noise that is low on money and pressure.
I dont care wether i draw the parasite or i am forced to use the clone chip / deja vu to get it. As long as i have access to it, its good. Inject gives me access to four cards for 1 credit or less and 0 influence.
Inject is a card you want to use at / near the start of a game. If the engine is not online yet, I don’t want the next 4 draws to be programs anyway. At that point I’m probably still looking for an Aesop or Wyldside. And being 2 credits short of getting your rig online is not to uncommon either. Playing an Atman version with inject is out of the question for sure.
I don’t know how it will turn out. Maybe you will ditch to much or you don’t want to ever see it late. Only way to know for sure is testing, too bad it will be a while before the pack is out in the Netherlands. However this is the list I plan to use for testing.
Only really for influence reasons - there’s not much difference in Deja Vu for a Atman vs a D4v1d, except the Atman is hugely more useful.
1 Clone Chip, 1 Hades Shard, 1 Atman is a possible replacement for 3 Clone Chip, and you can add more Same Old Thing if you really need more virus recursion.
Inject ups the value of clone chip a lot. It is not the virus recursion that is the issue. The Atman recursion is a bigger problem. It is easy to recur Davids with clonechip. While keeping the deja vu for actual viruses.
Actually, David is imho much better. It’s cheaper, it’s safe vs unkown things, and it’s aesopsable. Also, the best thing is, it’s temporary solution. Which is great since you want to pressure different servers all the time, switching the focus and forcing more rezes. Also, if it’s something really nasty, you want to parasite it away, not spend tons of money on getting an atman for it and then breaking it constantly. I very rarely go through same protected server more than once in a turn. There’s just no money for that
@Kngrichard, you’re forgetting Hades Shard, crucial card for the deck. And damned for that 1 influence
I’m wondering what good things are there that would benefit the deck and cost 1 influence?
Atman/Sucker is a really powerful combination early game, and dirt cheap (and way better than Crypsis for central pressure). Late game you’re rich and can stick it at 4 vs those Eli/Lotus Field servers, and bring down the small stuff with Parasite/Cryspis.
If Astrobiotics rezzes Lotus Field on R&D, you’ve basically lost if you’re using only Parasite/Crypsis. Wraparound is not much better but at least you can burn it down/use D4v1d.
The best I could come up with is Ice Analyzer - especially since you’re running Aesops and going all-in on the Parasite recursion.
In theory yes, it’s good. But as 1off in the deck, I don’t think it’s going to be useful often enough I’m thinking just putting one more card draw (that “take a look at 4 and take 1”) or single easy mark…
You are right here for many anarch decks, but I think you missed that this is a Noise thread.
In short, I think Inject works for most current Whizz, Reina, or Quetzal builds, but doesn’t work as well with most Noise builds. I know your Whizz deck, @GreedyGuts, and I think Inject helps it a lot.
[quote=“Dragar, post:205, topic:1731”]
…most Noise decks do run very small breaker suites, with other important programs that are one-shot (Parasite, D4v1d, Cache, arguably Knight) or utility (Datascucker, Sahasrara, Scheherazade) en masse (because they mill, are economy, or they’re powerful but one-shot). The breakers are typically AI, with a rare Corrodor/Mimic added to support the AI. Crypsis, Knight, Darwin, Wyrm and Atman are all common choices. A typical Noise deck probably has about 5-7 ice breakers.
[/quote] This ^ is why I think Inject doesn’t work with Noise.
How often are you blowing up ice instead of just getting accesses? As noise I find myself dropping 2-4 parasites a game. With all that money you don’t need to blow up everything to get in. And getting in is how you win. Glacier you may want a few more parasites, but against NEH I’ll sometimes discard an extra parasite because there isn’t time. I’d rather play my imps which can remove ice before it is rezzed.
People are also forgetting that in program heavy builds, Inject could possibly only get you 1 or 2 cards, in which case it becomes a fairly weak econ card. seeing 2 non-programs nets you 1 card (2-Inject) and 1 (2-Inject) credit. Sure, it’s better than clicking for a card, but often Noise can use a click for something better than that. Moreover, I reject the notion that Clone Chip is an auto-include in Noise/Shop. I have never used it and I have never missed it.
But, as others have pointed out, it gives you access to four cards - albeit putting several of them in your heap.
I can see its use in setting up Noise, even if you’re not going all out on the Clone Chips. You need Aesops, and ideally Wyldside, very early to stand a chance against a great many decks. Sometimes I’ll draw through and discard a bunch of programs (breakers, D4v1d, maybe a spare Medium, maybe an Imp) looking for one of the pair anyway.
fair enough. I mulligan very aggressively for Wyldside. IMO it’s the most important component of my deck. frustratingly, even with Turn 1 Wyldside, I frequently fail to see Aesop’s until at least mid-game, despite 3 copies. I guess it can’t hurt for me to experiment with Inject.
But this is just the inject testing version 
Yeah. Less good in Noise, though I’d still consider it I can definitely see it getting chopped.