The big point is, just to emphasize, that the twins fires in a later window. So they aren’t simultaneous triggers and there’s no ice to encounter again. This is the same for Bioroid Efficiency Research which would derez the ice before the twins checks and the twins looks for a rezzed piece of ice.
Were the triggers simultaneous, the corp would get to pick their order; but they aren’t.
But that’s the question gum. If the Corp is the one that trashes the card, he must do so in the Corp portion of the timing windown, no?
Runnerrands breaks in 3.1, passes to corp. Corp has twins.
I think we all agree that without oai in play the twins fires.
I’m just trying to reconcile the recent rulings,
aka itd can fire in same phase as rez, and corp trashes.
Parasite was ruled the runner is trashing… that’s fine happens in the runner section of the timing window, twins cannot work. But oai was ruled the corp istrashing/must trash…
No, they are completely different timing windows.
Here’s how the run goes.
Runner approaches the ICE.
2.3 - Runner can take paid abilities.
Once they pass, Corp can take paid abilities. If the ICE is unrezzed, this is the point at which it can be rezzed. But OAI is in play so it doesn’t apply.
Runner encounters the ICE.
3.1 Runner can take paid abilities including using ice breakers to break subroutines. If the runner breaks all subroutines on the ICE it is trashed due to OAI.
Corp can take paid abilities (but not rez).
3.2 Resolve all unbroken subs on the ICE (if any, obviously not in this case). Then, assuming the run has not ended, the runner continues the run. This is the point at which The Twins fires (pass the ICE). But there is no unrezzed ICE so it cannot trigger.
Ok. Thanks.
One more question: Does the corp trash in 3.1 turnin his timing window phase, or does he trash during the runners window phase.
I would assume that it happens during the runner’s, because it happens the moment that the last sub-routine is broken. But I’m not familiar with the ruling that you cite in your post above which seems to suggest the opposite.
It does happen during the runner’s window, as it is a conditional trigger: “when all subroutines are broken” similar to how cards that say “when you encounter this ice” are triggered by a specific thing happening rather than a paid ability window. In this case, the ruling chris references (that the corp is the one doing the trashing) is immaterial; since it is triggered and not a paid ability, it does not wait for the corp’s window.
yup.
10char.
I’m guessing the corp can’t choose not to have subroutine resolve? I’m thinking about potential anti-synergy between Builder and the morphing ice.
Correct. See the upcoming Little Engine which has a sub that gives the runner money.
I got one!
the runner is accessing cards in a server with a rezzed strongbox, heinlein grid, and napd contract (or red herrings and some other agenda) they have only 4 credits. can they steal? who gets to choose the order in which additional costs must be paid? My gut says that the person doing the spending gets to chose the order they spend in, but since the costs here are effects coming from corp cards, maybe the corp gets to choose the order? now that I say it out loud I’m thinking it’s probably wishful thinking…
My bet is that all additional costs are paid at once (and so the runner can pay 4 and a click to steal the NAPD after which Heinlein triggers).
Probably a stupid question but can leela’s ability send back the Glenn Station hosted card?
I’d say no simply because it is not installed.
OK, I just had a disagreement on OCTGN with somebody over a rule that I was fairly certain about, but they were equally 100% certain the other way, so here it goes. They told me to post here, their OCTGN name is bjester.
I’m playing as Blue Sun. I have an Adonis Campaign. I rez the Adonis at the end of a turn. At the beginning of my turn, I take the 3 credits from Adonis, then Blue Sun it back to my hand, for a net gain of 3 credits from rezzing, taking the Adonis creds, and then taking Adonis back for the rez cost. I was under the assumption I get to choose the order of abilities that trigger at the start of my turn. From the rules rundown on netrunnerdb which, I believe, are verbatum from the official rules:
Whenever there is an opportunity to trigger paid abilities, rez cards and/or score agendas (usually at the beginning of a turn and after each action), the player who is currently taking his turn gets the first opportunity to act. He can trigger as many abilities, rez as many cards, and/or score as many agendas as he wishes in the order of his choosing. When he is finished, the other player gets the opportunity to act. When that player is finished, the first player gets the opportunity to act once again.
Which pretty much tells me I can do what I just did. I see nowhere else that tells me otherwise, but bjester was sure that I couldn’t, so here I am. Please tell me I haven’t been playing (and playing against peoeple who play) Blue Sun the complete wrong way.
You did it the right way. The only argument can be made that you can’t take it back after the mandatory draw, but you should just indicate that you will take it after gaining 3
No. “If a card is hosted but not installed, the card is inactive.” If the card is hosted on Glenn station, it is not installed, so it is neither rezzed or unrezzed. Leela’s ability needs a target that is installed and unrezzed.
Were they the last 3 credits on Adonis? Did you take your mandatory draw before declaring that you’d take Adonis back to hand with the Blue Sun ability?
The “proper” way to do it on OCTGN is right click on Adonis and pick the action “Take X credits” to grab your start of turn money manually, then bounce the Campaign, then do your mandatory draw.
Some people will get grouchy if you just hit turn start, see the card you drew, and then bounce the Adonis because that’s technically wrong.
This is why I always shift-click the card I’m bouncing, then hit f1, then double-click the identity. It’s reasonably easy, the ID stays tapped to remind me that I did indeed bounce something this turn, and I haven’t met anyone who’d have a problem with it this way.
(it would be prudent not to try chickening out of a bounce after seeing a card, though 
)
As one of those grouchy people, this behaviour makes me happy.