Or articulating an effect priority list such as “set to n effects happen (before/after) plusminus effects”. That’d be really straightforward as well as generally applicable.
@Dragar has the right of it. But just as a small clarification – this is accurate because you are using Batty, a paid ability, to fire the sub. If the sub was resolving normally (i.e. at 3.2 of a run) and it is the runner’s turn, they would have the first action during the next ability window.
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But just as a small clarification – this is accurate because you are using Batty, a paid ability, to fire the sub. If the sub was resolving normally (i.e. at 3.2 of a run) and it is the runner’s turn, they would have the first action during the next ability window.
Just to go further on this; the runner only has priority in the action window if it’s the runner’s turn (as stated). If the run is happening on the corp’s turn (AOYCR), then the corp has priority in the action window, and can kill before the runner gets a chance to boost for draw.
Niche case, I know, but if AOYCR will ever be relevant, I think this is the example for it.
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Got a question on the heap breakers with the “pump X break Y” abilities. Will use MK Ultra vs Ichi 1.0 (STR 4, 3 subs) for the example:
Starts at STR 1, 3cr to “+2 STR, break up to 2 subroutines if able”
So the first time you use that paid ability, it gets you up to STR 3 and tries to break 2 subs - but fails, because STR 3 can’t break STR 4. Second time you use it you pump to STR 5 and now you actually break 2 subs, leaving one unbroken. Have to pay 3cr a third time to break the third sub?
Have I misinterpreted, and you can say “I fire this paid ability twice simultaneously, for +4 STR and break 4 subs”? That doesn’t seem correct to me…
You have it right. The first use fails to break any subs.
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You have three effects: Wraparound’s Inherent Strength, printed in the corner (0), then Wraparound’s Constant while there’s no Fracter installed (+7), then finally SIFR (ICE Str is 0). Applying these in timestamp order, means the strength is 0, +7, and then it’s 0. When a Fracter gets installed, Wraparound’s Constant stops applying, so the strength is 0, then 0.
That’s why it doesn’t go to -7. SIFR doesn’t apply a strength subtraction, it sets Strength.
Do we have a ruling on whether you can SIFR a Lotus Field? Intuitively, it seems you shouldn’t, but perhaps you can? It’s possible that Lotus Field is better read as ‘Lotus Field cannot have its strength reduced (below 4)’. SIFR’s one of the first strength-setting abilities we’ve had, as every other ability has been a +/- strength ability.
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This isn’t the problem, though. It was merely an example I was putting to @jakodrako to try and understand the problem. The problems are more akin to my first example (involving Sandburg). If we’re applying effects as a whole in time stamp order, there’s no way that going into a new sandburg tier (IE: from +3 to +4 when moving from the 15 to 20 credit bracket) can be factored in partially. Either Sandburg reevaluates and is providing its full +4, or it doesn’t reevaluate and continues to be masked by SIFR.
However, that is not the answer I got. Jako agreed it would result in a +1, which I can’t Intuit using just time stamps and SIFR modification. It might’ve been quick judgement to a hefty example jammed into an overpacked tweet (which I can’t fault anyone for). I haven’t heard back on my follow up either, though, so I’m not certain that’s it either:
https://twitter.com/ANR_Questions/status/820824582059868162
It’s possible that the answer is that effects like Sandburg resolve partially (IE: +1 at a time), but I feel like that’s a pretty big change in our model of how abilities work, and would like some clarification before I’d be confident ruling it like that.
I do agree that lotus is another question that could use answering.
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While you’re talking about timestamp, make sure to clarify whether it’s installed or rezzed. It doesn’t particularly matter for SIFR, but in the future… We care about when the Asset was rezzed, not just installed, right?
Ya, but it’s also fairly hard to jam these examples into tweets. I’m lucky I managed to spell out Sandburg at all in the last one (had to axe the “are” between “how” and “we” to do it).
Twitter is not a stellar means of rule discussion. Currently doing a cost analysis of how much string I’d need to setup a tin can telephone to Damon directly.
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I brought the question up on Twitter before reading the cards. Lotus can’t have it’s strength lowered, and SIFR lowers strength to 0. Rock, meet paper.
‘Cannot’ always wins, I guess. (Sometimes I wonder if the spirit of that rule is in the Magnet/Parasite ruling too.)
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This is a bit of a tangent from the SIFR order-effects question, but it has left me wondering if there is a hard and fast rule about ice strength not going negative for any reason. Does anyone recall this being spelled out in plain language somewhere? It seems like @jakodrako is kind of avoiding saying that directly by relying on the particular language of SIFR.
Leaving SIFR out of it, if you Wyrm a Wraparound down 3 and then bring your Paperclip back from the heap mid-encounter, is the Wrap now Str 0 or Str -3? What if they subsequently hit it with a Troubleshooter at x=4 – Str 4 or Str 1?
The wording on parasite has me believing there’s nothing stopping ICE from going < 0.
A plausible concrete example that would answer this is if I have Atman 0 out, a Hivemind w/ >3 counters, and Clone Chip a Parasite onto an Architect; I’m guessing that it cannot be broken with the Atman, but I’m not certain.
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Negative str is answered in FAQ. ICE and breakers can have negative str.
Edit: page 6 of latest FAQ.
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In a weird way, I think this is helping to clear up (most of) SIFR for me. Essentially, it sets* directly to 0, rather than apply a particular negative. Then we work from timestamps - if an effect that was in play before SIFR then leaves, we basically ignore it because SIFR set directly to 0. So, in the case of, say, a fracter coming into play while Wraparound is out, it’s something like this-
Wrap with no fracter - (0 + 7) * SIFR = 0.
Fracter comes into play. We take out the +7 and get - (0) * SIFR = 0.
The one place I’m still a bit uncomfortable here are variable bonuses such as Sandburg’s. @jakodrako’s earlier tweet on the subject seemed to suggest we should treat the bonus as discrete units for the purpose of time-stamping (e.g. +1 at 11:01, then another +1 at 11:05) rather than as a single block (+2, last updated at 11:05). On it’s face that seems workable (if a bit peculiar), but I’m still not 100% on how to best treat something that reduced and then re-raised after a SIFR came into effect. It seems like we should just treat each chunk like an entirely new bonus, but we do run into kind of a Ship of Theseus problem if we extend this to more elaborate scenarios. For example, we could have, say, a +5 bonus from Sandburg that was applied before SIFR is replaced, one +1 portion at a time, by a new set that are each timestamped after the SIFR.
*As a super pedantic and unlikely to ever be relevant point, I do wonder if SIFR can set a negative strength ice to 0 - the term “lowers” seems to suggest not, but this does open up other weird edge cases.
Like a parasite installed on an Architect or 0 strength ice encountered with Ice Carver, for example.
I realize the issue with the tweet about Sifr vs variable modifiers like Sandburg. It’s in the discussion occurring for the UFAQs, I’m waiting on the proper channels to get back to me.
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Are UFAQs coming back? This is great news! 
(from Blood Money onwards or just the latest pack?)
Working on it. Blood Money and on, yes.
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So with Chiyashi just getting released, how does it work with Dai V? Dai V breaks all subs for 2 credits. Since Dai V is an AI does that mill 2 cards or six? I’m just confused with the wording.
It also doesn’t matter what you break the subs with, be it DaiV or Deus X or Paperclip.
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