The FAQ says “The Runner can trash an agenda accessed with Demolition Run, instead of stealing it.” so I would think that you always have the option to Imp/Demo/etc an agenda rather than stealing it.
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Somehow missed that. Thanks!
Suppose the following happens:
- The corp discards an NAPD Contract
- Noise installs a Datasucker, milling a Hedge Fund
- The runner accesses Archives
Is the corp allowed to shuffle the hidden cards in Archives in order to prevent the runner from determining whether the NAPD contract was milled or discarded? Or does the corp have to maintain the order of the cards so that the runner should be able to figure out where each card came from?
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question aside, in which scenario is that relevant?
Playing nbn no Jackson on table, I’d like to know if they are chucking me an NAPD- Midseasons. Amongst other steal an agenda punishments.
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Edge cases FTW!
I’d guess not, I can’t think of any other situations in which the order cards are played etc. is allowed to be hidden. But I haven’t scoured the rules for confirmation of that.
“Both the Corporation and Runner may look through the faceup cards stored in Archives at any time, and do not need to maintain the order of its cards while doing so. The Corporation can also look at the facedown cards in Archives at any time; the Runner cannot.”
From what I understand, the faceup cards can be put in any order, the facedown cards cannot.
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Suppose I am the corp in the following situation:
It’s the start of my turn and I have a Ronin with 2 advancement tokens on it. The runner has two cards in hand, a Clone Chip in play, and a Deus X in their heap.
Due to the way the timing rules work, if I advance Ronin twice with my first two clicks and the runner does not use the Clone Chip to get back Deus X then I can flatline them with my third click. If I just say “advance, advance, rez and use Ronin” then the runner can be like “slow down, I want to use Clone Chip”. But if I say “advance - would you like to trigger any paid abilities? advance - would you like to trigger any paid abilities” then I am tipping off my opponent that something is coming (unless I ask that same question every time throughout every game, which is obviously not a great option!). I can try pausing for a while after each action and then try and use the Ronin, but then he might say “wait, before you do that…” and now we’re probably going to have to call a judge?
Any thoughts on what the appropriate approach is to such a situation?
The Corp rezzes Ronin during a window in between the 2nd and the 3rd action. After rezzing he passes the priority, and the Runner can use Clone Chip. After the window closes, the Corp can play his 3rd action, such as using Ronin.
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Ah, true. A different example then:
Corp: about to advance and score a Breaking News
Runner: 2 credits, 1 Fall Guy, Rachel Beckman, New Angeles City Hall
Same situation - runner needs to activate Fall Guy before the 2nd advancement or else they will not be able to prevent Rachel from being trashed
Nope, because it’s a “prevent” effect, which means it can go off after the thing it’s preventing to stop it from happening.
Do you mean using Fall Guy to prevent Rachel Beckman from being trashed once you get tagged? I don’t think that works due to Rachel’s wording. My idea was that you needed to use the Fall Guy for the two credits in order to pay for a second NACH activation. But suppose instead of Fall Guy it’s a Cache with two counters on it. In that case if the runner does not use Cache before the 2nd advancement action then they will not be able to prevent Rachel from being trashed, correct?
edit: or maybe the same Deus X + Clone Chip scenario, but with scoring a Philotic Entanglement instead of trying to use a Ronin.
C: Click - Advance
C: Paid abilities
R: Paid abilities
C: Click - Advance
C: Paid abilities - Score, give tags, trash Beckman
Yes, that I know. The question is the etiquette of taking those actions in such a way that you give the runner the opportunity to use paid abilities without alerting him that they should be doing so.
Oh alright. Well, pause for a second after the second advancement. That’s their chance to say ‘Wait!’
Yeah, in that edge case of the runner needing the 2 creds from Fall guy to avoid second tag (or Cache creds, or whatever), I think you have to wait a beat or two and then complete your action. Make it a very pregnant pause and any player worth her salt will not give you shit for it.
Does the 'You cannot access that card this turn." clause of Queen’s Gambit precede placing the counters? i.e. Can you play Queen’s Gambit after making sure the card is not an agenda? Obviously not efficient, it’s just always been in my mind for some reason.
You CAN play Queen’s Gambit after making sure the card is not an agenda. “You cannot access that card this turn” ~= “for the rest of this turn if you would access that card, instead don’t”
I think if you use Shipment from San San to do both advancements in the same action, then there will be no paid ability window for the runner. So just do it that way! 
BTW same type of situation happens with Ruhr Valley, Off the Grid, and Caprice in a naked server. The Corp has to rez before the runner declares the run on that server, but in that case the runner asking, “do you want to rez anything” before their next action isn’t giving away a surprise (you sort of expect the runner to run).
In another similar situation, I was in a game recently playing against Noise who had a Hades Shard on the table. I had a face-down card in a server that could have conceivably been a Jackson (actually, it was!) and so every time he milled a card, I made a point to type (this being OCTGN), “use Hades Shard?” I eventually got him to burn the Shard on a non-agenda mill. That was cool.
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Re: the order of cards in Archives question from above, I don’t think there’s any obligation on the corp to preserve the order of facedown cards in Archives. I have no evidence to back this up, except that the point of the rule that the corp does not need to maintain the order of the faceup cards in archives, as suggested in the FAQ, seems to me to be that doing so would be really fiddly and annoying. Putting cards back in order after each successful Archives run or Jackson use would be a nightmare, and this applies to facedowns as well as faceups. Notice also that no cards have yet been printed that specifically refer to the order of cards in Archives, unlike games such as Game of Thrones which has cards which refer to ‘the top card of your discard pile’ or similar.
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