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Official Rules Question Thread


Yeah, for some reason my brain always reverts to thinking about cases like Komainu and making that the default “this is how damage works” case. Someone earlier set me strait again and I forgot to update my question. So with that being the case, I’m almost positive that Skorpios discards all cards at once, then chooses which of those cards to RFG (as would be the same case with IHW, drawing after the lump of damage is dealt).


Question about Rebirth in a limited format such as Cache Refresh: what IDs can you choose? I’m assuming only the IDs of your faction in the legal sets (that you aren’t currently playing), but wanted to be sure.

Note: I am aware that Rebirth is not legal in Cache Refresh–just checking in case they choose to expand the idea to last n cycles instead of last 2 at some point in the future. (Or after rotation, for that matter, if the logic is the same.)


i doubt this will receive an official answer, but i’m about 1000000% positive you can only choose a card that’s legal for that format


Can you use Maxwell James to derez a piece of ice during an encounter, after the window for the corp to re-rez it has passed? In other words, does it end up both derezing and bypassing a piece of ice?


Well, bypassing means a particular thing in this game, and since you have to encounter it to move past step 2.3, effects like Tollbooth and Data Raven would trigger where they ordinarily wouldn’t with a card like Femme Fatale. But you derez it, it has no subroutines to resolve, and you proceed on, so functionally yes. (At least, until Boggs comes to his senses and fixes that.)


Polyhistor triggers “The first time each turn you pass all of the ice protecting HQ…” If there are zero pieces of ice protecting HQ, are you considered to have passed all of the ice protecting HQ? I’m inclined to say no because you did not pass any ice, but I’m just curious.


All includes 0.
So, you have passed all the ice :wink:

Source FAQ:
The word “all” includes the number zero.
Example: The Corporation plays an Oversight AI and rezzes a
Woodcutter. The Runner encounters the Woodcutter while it has
zero subroutines. The Runner is considered to have broken all the
subroutines on the Woodcutter, and the ice is trashed.


Holy shit, this example though. If someone did this in a real game of Netrunner, I’m honestly not sure how I’d handle it. Like, do they have a plan? Are they just taunting me? Is this the beginning to some next, next level combo? Do I just conceed? Is there a God at all, and if there is, why would He allow this to happen on His earth? Is it game over, man? Game over?


Huh. I’m going to have to re-evaluate how I understand these processes. I wouldn’t have thought you “pass” ice that isn’t there. You never approached it, you never passed it. Thus, you never passed any ice so you haven’t “passed” all the ice. I would have thought the same about the Woodcutter, either. If you run archives when it has zero cards in it, does it count as having “accessed” cards?

Ah, I see that step 4 of the timing structure of a run includes the caveat that “when runner passes all ice” triggers trigger. This game continues to confound me!


Welcome to my personal hell.


It’s honestly just following logic in a mathematical way. Check out the “all” quantifier.

The phrase “all unicorns have a horn” is true even if there are 0 unicorns. This is something that apparently was a problem back in the middle ages when there was only propositional logic and no predicate logic. It was thought that there has to be a unicorn if we want to say they all have horns.

So if you have a problem with these types of statements, you’re using zeroth-order logic and need to upgrade your logic to first-order logic. :slight_smile:


Not sure if this has been clarified anywhere, but it’s probably a timing nuance thing.

I’m playing Seidr and the runner trashes a card while Ronald 5 is rezed. Can I put the card just trashed back on R&D? If so, presumably this also works mid multi-access on R&D (are you sure you want to trash the Snare?).


I would think so. The condition for Ronald Five triggering is that the Runner trashes a Corp card. This means that the card has been trashed and is in Archives before Ronald Five forces the Runner to lose a click, which means it is in Archives when the condition on Seidr Laboratories: Destiny Defined of the Runner losing a click triggers the option on Seidr Laboratories: Destiny Defined of adding 1 card from Archives to the top of R&D.

TL;DR. Yes, because the card is in Archives.


Here’s a question I can’t find the answer to after some amount of googling: how do multiple copies of Jeeves interact?

For example, say I play Shipment from MirrorMorph for three Jeeves Model Bioroids. I rez one Jeeves and play three Biotic Labors, gaining an extra click. I then rez a second Jeeves, trashing the first.

Can this second Jeeves trigger if I again spend 3 clicks on the same action? If yes, does that include playing three more operations?

I’m going back and forth on what “the first time” means in this context.


I believe not - I don’t think it matters that you’re trashing an old Jeeves. The relevant rulings are the ones about rezzing Jeeves mid-turn, and “the first time” is a singular event.


To extend upon @strundle’s point…If you are a runner that draws a card, then installs Symmetrical Visage, and draws another card, you would not get the extra credit for your second draw because you have already drawn once that turn. Similarly, Jeeves (regardless of which instance you have rezzed) would only trigger the first time you spent three clicks on the same action in the turn.

If you are asking if you can get Jeeves to fire from three clicks spent on events, then three clicks spent on advancing install cards (for example) I would think not. For this to work I think it would be written something along the lines of “The first time you spend 3 clicks on each action…” That is my interpretation of it anyway.


Can someone walk me through how Seidr Labs and Wanton Destruction interact?

Specifically, does the Seidr player get to fire their ability before or after they discard cards from the effect of Wanton Destruction? Can you use Seidr to rescue those cards?

My intuition would be that Seidr would fire first due to cascading triggers, but what do I know?


I think you’re right.

The only way I can see the discard happening first is if the discarding is also an effect triggered by the click spending, in which case it would have the same trigger as Seidr and would happen first because it’s a Runner ability on the Runner’s turn. I don’t think that’s the case, but I’m not sure, because I’m generally confused by things where you may spend something to cause something but it’s not a paid ability.

Actually, now that I’ve thought about it more, I think maybe the Wanton effect does have the same trigger and thus fires first. Still unsure, though.


Seidr would fire first because it’s a triggered ability. Just like how Eli 2.0 synergizes with Seidr. If they click through the ETR subs you would resolve Seidr’s ability before drawing a card with Eli.


I think Seidr and Eli 2.0 is a different case. During 3.1 the runner has a window to use paid abilities or use Icebreakers to interact with ICE (ancur only specifies icebreakers can interact with ICE in this window but I assume this is where paying clicks would happen as well). Then during 3.2, unbroken subroutines fire. In this example, Seidr triggers in step 3.1 after the runner pays the click cost to break a subroutine – in this case after spending two clicks at once for two subs.

Back to the original problem with Wanton and Seidr…My interpretation of Wanton is when the run is successful, you spend clicks (cost) to force the corp to trash cards (ability). I think when it comes to triggers based off paid abilities the initial ability resolves and then all cascading triggers. While this is not a paid ability window, you are still paying a cost for an ability so I would think Wanton will resolve first and then all cascading triggers (Seidr) will resolve. This falls apart is Wanton is not considered a cost: ability effect but that is my two credits.