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Official Rules Question Thread


#4093

For paid abilities, it’s not quite that simple. First the cost resolves, then all the cost’s cascading triggers, then the ability, then the ability’s cascading triggers. There’s an example in the UFAQ on Quarantine System. So if this is like a paid ability that costs a click, then it’s Seidr first. Incidentally, things can be triggered in the middle of an ability, too, as when Leela steals an agenda while accessing multiple cards from HQ.

But as you said, this isn’t a paid ability, so it could very well be quite different.


#4094

I agree, the root question is Wanton Destruction click-spending a cost, because it’s not very clear (i.e. it’s not called an additional cost, or using the cost: ability format). My interpretation is that it is, because how can you spend clicks, if it’s not on a cost. If we do consider it a cost, then we know from other examples that abilities trigger from cost go first (i.e. Scavenge can be used on the program that was used to as the additional cost,etc.).

But, I sent this in to ANCUR’s twitter for further clarification:

EDIT: And very quickly confirmed:

Thanks @jakodrako!


#4095

I was trying to think of an example of where something is triggered off of a paid ability but could not think of one. The closest I could think of was playing Sure Gamble with exactly five credits in your credit pool and an Order Of Sol installed. You pay the five credits first, gain one from Order Of Sol because you are at 0 credits and then the effect of Sure Gamble resolves leaving you with 10 credits. However this trigger is not based off the paying but as a consequence of the paying so not quite the same.

Glad it is sorted though. It does make more logical sense than what I was thinking.


#4096

FWIW, Wasteland/Endless Hunger is a pretty solid example. =)


#4097

Tech Trader? Geist?


#4098

To be more specific, I was trying to think of an example where it made a difference weather the trigger resolved before or after the original ability resolving. We have a ruling now so I’ll know for the future :slight_smile:.


#4099

Hey, just to make sure…

With Maxwell James, as long as I’ve run HQ this turn, I can use his trash ability in the same window that the Corp rezzes ICE?
Example: Corp rezzes Tollbooth. I trash Maxwell to force them to pay again to rez it. If they don’t, I won’t lose 3 credits.

Additionally, I can use his ability during an Encounter?
Example: If I run on a server and the Corp rezzes Vanilla, I can move to the Encounter step and de-rez Vanilla and the Corp can’t re-rez it, and since the ICE is de-rezzed, I pass the ICE?

(If, as I suspect, both of these are true… Is Maxwell just extremely powerful?)


#4100

That’s right. Maxwell is like an Inside Job/Emergency Shutdown in one.


#4101

As a caveat, he can’t be used on centrals, so not a strict replacement, but I agree the power level on the card seems a little bit insane.


#4102

If I play an Accelerated Diagnostics pile containing Archived Memories and 2x Shipment from SanSan while having a rezzed Bioroid Working Crew, can I use AM to fetch an agenda and install it via BWC before resolving Shipments?


#4103

No; There’s no Paid Ability Window in the middle of resolving Accelerated Diagnostics.

(There is one directly after you Click to play an Operation, once the Operation finishes resolving.)


#4104

I don’t think I understand the second sentence of BWC’s ability. Is it meant to suggest you may only use this ability after playing an operation? And, if so, are we meant to presume that “immediately” refers to the next paid ability window? How would that work with, say, AOYCR?


#4105

Interesting. To me, “immediately after playing an operation” indicates that you can use BWC’s ability even before the operation resolves. So you play the operation, install something using BWC, resolve the operation, trash the operation.

I’m just extending from what is written on ANCUR’s page about operations. However, there is no paid ability window for my example to work so it might not work that way. Just more questions now…


#4106

Just noticed the “…as soon as they’re played” clause. That might make my interpretation wrong. Even still it opens up lots of questions about AOYCR and also terminal operations.


#4107

I think you’re overthinking it. The intent seems to be to fire the ability in the paid ability window after the playing the operation so you would need to finish resolving it.


#4108

It wouldn’t be a rules question if we didn’t overthink it. :stuck_out_tongue:

I am guessing that means you cannot use the ability after playing a terminal operation but before discarding (like overdrawing with Violet Level Clearance). I think I am just hung up on the word “immediately” not really meaning immediately but, as @strundle suggested, it means the next paid ability window.


#4109

Re: Maxwell James. Just wait until you go to encounter and derez it without their ability to rerez it. :wink:


#4110

That was the Vanilla example…
The time you’d want to de-rez on Approach is for stuff like Tollbooth or Data Raven where you don’t want to suffer On Encounter effects. :smiley:


#4111

I’m picking up what you’re putting down :smile:


#4112

If the Runner has Inversificator out and uses it to break a rezzed Kakugo which has become a code gate (Kit, Tinkering, whatever), does Kakugo’s “when passed” effect fire if the ICE is swapped?

My reading would be that they both trigger on passing, so Runner effects go first and Kakugo gets moved somewhere else by Inversificator. Now the text is still active and it seems to me that moving the ICE doesn’t change the fact that it has been passed, so then Kakugo fires.

Right?