Erm… So how does Running Interference + Muertos Gang Member works? Do you still pay the additional cost, or not? If not, then it would seem that you are right and ‘cost to rez’ = ‘rez cost’ + ‘additional costs’…
EDIT: found this:
[quote=“jakodrako, post:954, topic:1437, full:true”]
Muertos only ignores the rez cost. It would have to say “ignoring all [rez] costs” in order to ignore the Running Interference cost as well.[/quote]
And now we are back to problem 1 : how to contact Lukas when you are not VIP ?
Hmm. Architect says “ignoring all install costs”, while Eden Fragment says: “Ignore the install cost”.
So apparently “all X costs” includes the X cost plus any additional costs?
Let’s look back at the ruling:
This potential is assessed without taking into account the consequences of paying play, install, or rez costs
“Play, install, or rez costs” = all play costs + all install costs + all rez costs? If so, then it does cover additional costs.
Not the most explicit thing in the world, but I don’t quite see any inconcistency here… I’d add the words “trigger costs” and “including any additional costs” to make things clear though.
This has been the main question all along. But who can answer it ?
An easy one: With 6 Credits and two facedown Adonis Campaigns at the end of the runner’s turn, I can’t rez more than one of them to get income in the upcoming turn, because there is NO paid ability window during begin of turn effects. But with 6 credits, 2 facedown Adonis Campaigns, and an Executive Boot Camp, I can rez one Adonis at the end of the Runner’s turn, receive money from it, trigger Executive Boot Camp after that Adonis’s trickle, rez the other Adonis, and then receive its trickle, right? It seems exactly like the Aesop’s Pawnshop + Wyldslide example in the rulebook, except upside down.
I don’t get the comparison with Aesop/PS/Wyldside but you can not gain credit from an Adonis that wasn’t rez when your turn began. That card was not active when the trigger happened.
You can rez the second Adonis Campaign, but you won’t receive the money from it this turn.
When the start of turn trigger occurs you will have two effects that get triggered: Adonis Campaign paying out three credits and Executive Boot Camp allowing a cheap rez. You can choose the order in which you resolve those (like you say, it makes sense to take the money first). However the unrezzed Adonis Campaign isn’t active at the time of the start of turn trigger, so its ability won’t go in the list of triggered abilities to resolve.
Because it’s upside down. The Wyldslide WAS active when the trigger happened.
So does that mean the card has to be on the table for the trigger to happen, and then when the trigger resolves, the card checks again to see if the card is still on the table and doesn’t do anything if it’s not there? If so, the explanation for why Wyldslide Aesop’s works in the rulebook seems underexplained but I guess that would make sense.
Yes. Recall Tollbooth/Parasite/Ice Carver interaction - Tollbooth triggers, but when the trigger comes to resolve, the card is no longer present and ‘fizzles’.
The rulebook’s explanation of Aesop + Wyldslide is then misleading at best, incorrect at worst. And I heavily lead toward incorrect. Typing it out from my paper rulebook:
“The Runner has Aesop’s Pawnshop and Wyldside installed and both have the same trigger condition of “When your turn begins.” The Runner begins his turn and can choose to trigger the optional conditional ability on Aesop’s Pawnshop first, gaining 3C by trashing Wyldside. This stops Wyldside’s required conditional ability from triggering, keeping the Runner from losing click.”
This explanation suggests that by trashing Wyldside to Aesop’s Pawnshop, you can trash Wyldside before it is “triggered”, that is, its trigger condition is met, and it decides it wants to do stuff. Which would only make sense if there is no list of effects waiting to happen, but instead a list of cards waiting to encounter the “beginning of turn” event, so thus it is possible to kill a card before it lives long enough to encounter the “beginning of turn event”. For this explanation, Wyldslide never got a chance to say “Oh, hey, the turn started, I care about that”.
Since that explanation doesn’t handle Toolbooth/Parasite/Ice Carver or the Adonis Campaign thing I came up with, it seems that the rulebook should be corrected to:
“This stops Wyldside’s required conditional ability from resolving, keeping the Runner from losing click”.
Which very plausibly may have been the author’s intent all along. The verb trigger might have been carelessly to match the noun, (What do hammers do? they hammer. What do screws do? they screw), even though the English meaning for a trigger is quite distinct from whatever the trigger is doing, e.g. a gun trigger does not include the gunpowder or actual firing, and if a mouse steps on a trap and a loose piece causes the hammer to fly off in the wrong direction, the trap was still “triggered”
Would it not be allowed if your stack had 0 cards in it? What about 1 card? What about 2 identical cards?
The important distinction that the rulebook is making is that when more than one card care about a triggering event, then when that event occurs those conditional abilities are queued up waiting to trigger. There’s a sort of “pre-trigger” state that can only occur in this situation (more than one card would trigger). So no, the rulebook is not wrong, but it is a little confusing before you get the hang of how weird abilities in Netrunner are. You are essentially choosing the order that abilities trigger in, which is how abilities can even fizzle. It’s the subtle difference between something like a “when encountered” ability fizzling and something like Josh that has already triggered and can’t be stopped from triggering.
(FWIW the “pre-trigger” thing is on my list of rules stuff to cover with Lukas in forthcoming FAQs.)
Good questions! Is the heap also empty? If both the stack and heap are empty (that’s one brutal Chronos Project), then you cannot play Test Run. I don’t think the stack containing only copies of the same card matters for the question, but I don’t think there is any precedent for a true answer.
If Safety First were not unique, then the first one you trigger would draw you a card, and then the second one you trigger would not draw a card upon resolution.
That seems inconsistent. If the reason that you can play Test Run with no programs in your stack or heap is that shuffling changes the game state, then shouldn’t you not be able to play Test Run with no programs in your heap and no cards in your stack?
I think when he asked “is the heap empty” he meant, “does the heap contain no programs”. I think you’re actually on the same page
Ah. If so, what about the case where there is exactly one card in my stack?
Paying a cost for a conditional ability is considered as using the card (e.g. Atman + Toolbox, Femme Fatale + Jak Sinclair).
Is it considered as ‘triggering’ that ability?
When the Runner encounters Matrix Analyzer, can the Corp pay 1 even if he has no cards that can be advanced? (just to dump money and not lose it to Account Siphon)
Similarly, can the Runner dump money into e3 Feedback Implants?
No and no. Paying the cost is the act of triggering the ability.
Can Blue Sun return a card with rez cost 0?