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Passive-Aggressive Memos Megathread


#1

So I’m finding running on Jinteki.net almost unbearable anymore.

I’d say %60 of online matchups I have played over the last few weeks are either IG or Gagarin with Museum of History.

It’s unbearable. Unless your deck is explicitly designed to defeat these, your games, win or lose, go on for an hour or more. More often than not I end up conceding out of boredom.

These builds are completely impractical in in-person tourney play.

It’s to the point where I barely want to go online anymore.


#2

Hah. That’s a good one.


#3

Really, you think shuffling your deck twice a turn is conducive to a 45 minute match?


#4

45 minutes? Shouldn’t take more than 32.5 minutes if you want to finish both games.


#5

Sorry been awhile since I’ve played tourney honestly. that make my point even more. And I’m not talking about the IG ronin kill decks, I’m talking about the decks that basically have no win condition but just to go on forever and lure the runner into sleep


#6

Twice a turn? Should only be once, unless you’re playing some keyhole thing. And it takes me on average 25 minutes to play gagarin. Round times over here are 65 minutes. Have yet to go to time.


#7

I think you do have to be conscious of your pace. I played @CJFM’s deck at a tourney and had no issues with going to time, and I have, in the past, had issues with going to time (playing Nasir! :slight_smile: ).

The shuffling time issue is something you can minimize by being ready. And in the deck I was playing a lot of the time the runner will either never, or give up, trashing stuff so oftentimes you have nothing to Museum anyway.

The biggest time crunch likely comes from the fact that, if you are doing well, the runner has to do a lot of thinking to figure out how they are going to dig themselves out, but this is true with any corp control deck.


#8

So people like to troll online, that’s not new.

Gagarin and IG are playable and perfectly fine in tournaments regarding the round time.

Easy Solution for your problem: go to jinteki, create a new game, write in the title: no IG and Gagarin please and wait for proper opponents.


#9

Just put “No Museum of History” in your game title when you host. Easy as that!


#10

Ok I stand corrected. I guess experienced players who know their deck well can pull it off.

Between the fact that most people online are not that, AND jinteki doesn’t give you the ability to have the cards ready to shuffle back in and do the bookkeeping in a fast fashion means its just poorly suited to the play style.


#11

This is the key point. I can see how this can cause consternation. It should not be applicable to someone like @CJFM and his Museum deck, because they do have a plan for how they are going to win (other than putting runner in a coma), steadily work towards it, and will beat you or lose in a reasonable amount of time.

But I can understand that out of all the people playing on Jinteki.net there are probably more than a couple that play their Museum decks without a clear plan to win. In this case, I can envision a negative play experience. Removing the mill pressure does quite massively alter the gameplay of netrunner. But maybe that’s a good thing(?) because mill decks (the opposite side of the coin) are equally annoying (IMO).


#12

people whine when matches vs jinteki last 5 mins. FFS PEOPLE

JUST DECIDE ALREADY


#13

The problem isn’t that the card makes the game take forever, it’s that the people who pilot these decks are usually just really slow players. If people take their clicks in a reasonable amount of time it takes no longer than any other game.


#14

This, exactly! And I have tun into a few troll Gagarin decks on jinteki, and they make me sad. Tainting the well, so to speak.


#15

I don’t have any issue with those Museum of History deck,if the deck is a good deck and the people who pilot these decks are good players.


#16

I don’t play online but I’ve played IG recursion decks in meatspace tournaments where we’ve never gone to time and had great games, fun on all sides with something to play for right to the end. I’ve also played the same deck in other tournaments where more than one game has gone to time or we’ve had five minutes left for the reverse match. The difference has, in my experience, been entirely in the amount of “analysis paralysis” by the Runners. The deck doesn’t induce this behaviour in the Runner, but it does mean that if the Runner is prone to overthinking it becomes a major problem more often, since analysis paralysis for a few turns is a problem but analysis paralysis for a lot of turns just makes you want to give up and go home. Run, draw, take a credit, play a card, ditch a tag: just pick one and see what happens.


#17

edit - wrong thread!


#18

my games last like 15-20 minutes and im just starring to learn kill ig. The game length largely depends on how long the runner can wait before taking a bite out if my overwrites for, like, no reason at all.

Time spent on clicks is the biggest time sink, for sure.


#19

I concur!

I don’t concur! With the first bit anyway, I don’t think you need to build a specific deck, but largely those games do go on forever. At the Stoke SC last weekend an IG did make it through to the final (on timed wins/draw) and the game in the final took well over 45 minutes against Hayley with Deus Ex. I think it might have been just short of an hour, but don’t have specific timings. I know I played three games of casual Netrunner in the mean time and it was over 45 mins… So it does potentially get you to a final in tournament play, but it’s interminably slow.

I’ve not done so recently as it seems to have calmed down, but yes, for a while I put “no boring museum decks thanks” in the title of my game. That helped a lot.

There were a couple of museum decks at the SC this weekend, I think tenth place was the highest one got. My mate missed out on top 4 because he had a timed win one round - essentially the first game against IG had taken 50 minutes (which he won), not leaving enough time for him to win his Corp game.

I’m not invalidating anyone else saying they’re playing quickly enough, but it is definitely a thing that the presence of these decks at tournaments is slowing games down. Online with casual play I’ll happily walk out these days, as I’ve not got (personal preference) an hour to spend on hunt-the-agenda type games, when I can instead be playing more “classic” Netrunner.

Horses for courses.


#20

One issue I have worth museum decks is: if the runner defused part of the corp’s win condition, the Corp will stall indefinitely instead of driving toward a secondary win condition. It’s not the necessarily the wrong move, they are more likely to win if they just wait for the runner to exhaust themselves. Not every museum deck plays out this way, but I see them frequently on jinteki.