Playing against I've Had Worse

[Totakeke]

What are everyone's thoughts on playing flatline cards against I've Had Worse? Given that generally the corp doesn't know what cards the runner has in their hands and there seems to be very few reasons to not play it in Anarch over Plascrete, it seems like playing a dedicated flatline combo like SEA Source + 2x Scorch isn't worth the effort. Granted 3x Scorch is still a viable play, but all this seems to indicate that flatlining is a much more arduous than before. PE decks probably wouldn't change their playstyle, but decks playing Scorched Earth now have to make a decision whether to risk spending resources to potentially just empty their hand or just give up on the flatline kill altogether.

Another way to look at it is that Corp now needs to do more such as including brain damage to reduce their hand size for kill. 1 brain damage still wouldn't guarantee a kill if they had 2 I've Had Worse, but 2 brain damage to 3 hand size will definitely guarantee a flatline. If anyone doesn't know yet, Lukas has ruled that if the incoming damage is more than the number of cards in the runner's hand, the runner flatlines immediately. Still, all this seems to point that flatlining an Anarch runner with Scorch is now to be a dubious proposition.

Thoughts? Is just emptying their hand worth it? Is there something I've missed that can still make SE flatline work without a lot more effort put in?

[x3r0h0ur]

Do you mean I've had worse?

[Totakeke]

Yes, terrible brainfart >_>

[robotmascot]

So I'm not sure it's worth playing, but SEA->Traffic Accident->Scorch is equally deadly to a non-IHW hand and significantly less likely to hit the IHW. Given that it also, again, is quicker to assemble (but even more deck space to the flatline...), in the "I WANT YOU DEAD" version of Weyland I think it's worth at least thinking about.

EDIT: Or I could read the cards. MidSeasons->Accident->Scorched.

[Ahein]

I have given up normal 1x SEA/Scroch combos in Weyland because wasting credits for unsuccesful combo is almost lost match. I can still see perma tag Midseasons working against Anarchs but even that feels uncertain and you need Jackson to recycle Scorches (which doesn't really work against Noise). Steelskin is one of the strongest cards in the set and I can see popularity of Tag&Bag decks dropping.

[Totakeke]

Yeah, Midseasons do seem to have an edge now over Sea Source for both having to use three kill cards in a turn and to activate Traffic Accident.

I guess if it's any consolation, runners using IHW would also need to be more cautious on using Stimhack.

[mediohxcore]

Keeping 5 cards in hand can be difficult to do at all times. Often, an anarch will need something like stimhack or at least an econ card to break a remote curtain wall and keep all 5 cards in their hand. I don't think Sea/Scorch is necessarily dead. People will cut Plascrete from Anarch decks, and Plascrete worked better. All you need to do is not try to kill them from 5 cards.

It's not good news for Weyland, as you have to just assume they have it, but I don't think there's much to do about it except consider cutting the meat damage angle entirely if 3x steelskin anarch is everywhere.

[Gozik]

I did drop Carapaces from my noise half year ago. Imp is ussually enough vs scorched earth decks and wyldside+lamprey kills every PE I 've faced so far. Not sure that I will find deckslot for IHW, may be swap 1 of Inject but not sure.

I mean the existence of counter do not break archetype beacuase cards still needs slots. Look at 7 pointer deck sucksesful in shardes meta, or how can somebody win something with PE when Fidbeck Filter is released.

Plus you can still play 3*snare. Or bring something new like invasion of privacy or snoop into meta! World is not over, decks should modify and addapt to stay competitive(even astrotrain ones)

[kenobob]

As noted already, I've Had Worse is pretty risky as Scorch protection (still replacing Plascrete in 100% of Anarch decks though), but it will be amazing against Snare! and Ronin. Seriously, IHW practically nullifies the work compression flatline threat of PE.

[Zolend]

Keeping 5 cards in hand can be difficult to do at all times.

People will cut Plascrete from Anarch decks, and Plascrete worked better.

Agreed. Keeping 5 cards in hand at the end of every turn you run is tricky.

Lukas ruled that you have to survive the damage in order for IHW to trigger so double scorch at 4 cards is death unless you're packing two IHW in 4 cards. Is I've Had Worse more versatile than Plascrete? Hell yes. Is it better than Plascrete versus scorch? Hell no.

Edit:I keep calling it Steelskin still

[PeekaySK]

Or bring something new like invasion of privacy or snoop into meta!

This was exactly my instinct - just pack a Snoop, check out to see if you can kill 'em

[Gozik]

And with counter you can remove IHW without triggering it.

[PeekaySK]

People will cut Plascrete from Anarch decks, and Plascrete worked better.

I think anyone who's playing IHW in the Carapace slots deserves what's coming to them (namely fiery, explosive death). It's not a meat prevention card, it's not a flatline prevention card.

It's an in-faction Diesel that has the benefit of being super-awesome when you're playing against Jinteki and/or Snares. Running it improves your Jinteki matchup in a lot of neat ways. It does allow you to run through a Komainu and not die to a scored HoK, it draws you up immediately after hitting a Snare (as long as you're not a moron and aren't running with 2 cards in hand in the first place). With one of these in hand it's pretty safe to do a 5- or 6-deep Medium dig even against the prickliest of Jintekis.

It will definitely do a lot of work. But a Carapace alternative? Not even close

[Totakeke]

I think you're overestimating the use of IHW against PE. Unless your Anarch deck doesn't run often (maybe packing multi-access of some kind), you don't really get to choose when you want to have IHW in your hand given that net damage is random. That said, it'll definitely allow for more aggressive play against PE which remains to be seen how useful that is.

[Dragar]

Anarch doesn't have a good way to facecheck ice. You can't always have a Mimic or Clone Chip/Parasite at the ready to deal with Komainu (and the latter can be risky given Cyberdex Suite now!). Steelskin is a massive boon for facechecking potentially scary ice early.

[PeekaySK]

I think you're overestimating the use of IHW against PE

The way to beat PE with Anarch has always been "Medium-dig the living shit out of them". The match then ended up depending on how many Fetals you hit, how many Snares you hit, and whether they saw the Philotic first or you did. Part of the reason they got to see the Philotic were turns where you just had to draw up due to hitting a Snare, as well as not being able to go full-out psycho Medium on 'em until enough Fetals and Snares have been accounted for. Normally, what I'd do each turn is:

• Draw up to 6
• Medium-run, seeing just enough cards to minimize my chances of dying (i.e. 2 new ones, compared to previous turns)
  • unless I suspect the game will end next turn, in which case I'll go all-out and pray to RNJesus
• If I come up with nothing, play one of the cards to get back to 5

IHW helps immensely here, it's just a matchup where you keep it instead of playing it (and thus save a click and a credit).

Also, I really can't overstate how huge the aspect of "not necessarily able to Ronin/EMP me when I'm at 3 cards" is.

[Totakeke]

I definitely agree on enabling facechecking compared to likelihood of having IHW on a 5-6 card medium dig.

They can EMP you once and get 66% chance of killing you with Ronin if you're at 3 cards.

[mykonian]

Lamprey is a card.

[PeekaySK]

Lamprey is a card

So is Celeb Gift, Sweeps Week, Gila Hands and a crap-ton of other things that can keep a low-ICE deck above 8 credits comfortably if you're not Siphoning/Vamping heavily.

Sure, Lamprey helps, but unless you're running Sec Testing, I'd rather take my random accesses from a deck that the opponent couldn't stack as easily.

They can EMP you once and get 66% chance of killing you with Ronin if you're at 3 cards

Yes, but that means they have to commit the EMP first, and it might not work out. Compared to the situation previously, that's a huge boon already.

[Totakeke]

Right, if you end up in a situation where that is unavoidable and the recent net damage has not already hit your IHW... otherwise, those are not odds that I would put myself in.

Again this goes back to how good aggressive play is against PE when to me that matchup has always been more about attrition and passive play.