I’m with you, I think with a little redesign and some cheeky play, you’ll be able to pull wins off with Space Ice NEH once people start slowing down runner decks and just lean on clot to beat the fast corps.
Another thing you can do is if it is the agenda comes out and they SMC/Clot after install/advance, is install Jackson Howard over top of the stranded agenda with your last click, then pop Jackson to save the agenda from archives.
These tricks don’t really work with Biotic Labor because by the time they SMC/Clot you’re out 4c and the Biotic Labor, which isn’t worth the Reversed Accounts bluff or the Jackson over-write play.
I take issue with this post. I don’t know who crowned you “King of NBN” (and Best NBN player? ha.) just because you created a thread on BGG, but I have to tell you - Never Advance was not a good deck. The reason it won some games is most runners were bad back then and had no idea what to do. The two best decks at the time you made that post were by a LARGE margin not NBN. I am not sure where you live, but I suspect it has something to do with your meta.
I hate to sound like the dick here but somebody has to break the news to you.
11 Likes
I’m curious if running Ghost branch/Tagging ice/Psychographics might be the way to go.
1 Like
this a compilation of my thinkings on neh in futureland
Shitheap of neh ideas
Near-Earth Hub: Broadcast Center (Upstalk)
Agenda (11)
3x AstroScript Pilot Program (Core Set)
2x Breaking News (Core Set)
1x Market Research (Fear and Loathing)
2x NAPD Contract (Double Time)
3x Project Beale (Future Proof)
Asset (8)
1x Aggressive Secretary (Core Set) [color=#8A2BE2]••[/color]
1x Ghost Branch (Core Set)
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves)
3x Marked Accounts (Cyber Exodus)
Upgrade (3)
1x Cyberdex Virus Suite (Order and Chaos)
2x SanSan City Grid (Core Set)
Operation (13)
1x Closed Accounts (Core Set)
1x Fast Track (Honor and Profit)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
1x Psychographics (Core Set)
2x Shipment from SanSan (Second Thoughts)
3x Sweeps Week (True Colors)
2x Trick of Light (Trace Amount) [color=#DC143C]••••• •[/color]
Barrier (7)
3x Asteroid Belt (Order and Chaos) [color=#006400]••••• •[/color]
2x Wall of Static (Core Set)
2x Wraparound (Fear and Loathing)
Code Gate (3)
2x Enigma (Core Set)
1x Quandary (Double Time)
Sentry (4)
1x Data Raven (Core Set)
3x Shadow (Core Set) [color=#006400]•••[/color]
17 influence spent (max 17)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to Order and Chaos
Deck built on NetrunnerDB.
This is obviously terrible, but I think there will be one or two workable strategies in here if you pare down to something more focused. I like Shipment because it provides Clot counterplay and interacts extremely well with the Space Ice, but maybe cutting the space ice for ice walls (?) and running Elis as well would be better.
1 Like
Never Advance was pretty much the deck to beat for the period between Store Champs and Regionals last year, so saying it’s not a good deck is a stretch.
It’s a strong archetype, it was just cast aside when NEH Astrobullshit came along.
3 Likes
Midseason replacement NBN, with full ability to sack out Astrotrain wins as the impetus to make runs, was comfortably the best corp deck after the printing of Faerie, and before the printing of NEH. We played a bit with the old NA lists and such, but this was back during runner superdominance era, and only Midseason could post wins on a regular basis against old datasucker Andy. Remember that the reason so many people played HBFA for a while was because in elimination rounds it wouldn’t lose as badly. Other corp strategies were mostly all terrible for a long time against good runners.
One thing I’ve been experimenting with (to a large degree of success) is Sundew in Midseason-centric NBN builds. The runner absolutely cannot leave it alone for any amount of time, and even if you just throw a Pop-Up and a Raven in front of it, it becomes an extreme pain in the ass to keep taking care of.
Sure, it needs some support (like, a couple Interns), but those cards are decent on their own right, and strengthen some matchups anyway.
Good thing NEH’s 17 influence is so totally balanced you can conceivably run 3 Adonises, 3 Sundews and still have change left over.
2 Likes
Ghost Branch - no. Midseasons is a powerhouse, though.
This type of play really gives the midseasons threat its teeth even without the atrochain: Run an eli , spend to trash their econ, then run the other remote with a few more ICE (more Eli’s? data ravens? etc) to check if it’s an agenda? If you do all that, the credit swing will probably stick midseasons, If not, they make money and score the agenda. rinse repeat.
I think it might just be hard for long-time NEH players to imagine trying to play regular netrunner, but it can definitely be done.
4 Likes
BTW, I’m not seeing any MN decks, is this officially the “What to do with NEH after the sky falls” thread? MN looks very appealing when you’re not just going 100 mph, and considering tags and taxing. Draco and viper are great taxing ice, viper so much more so when you’re forcing out another breaker not yog+sucker with lotus field.
Also manhunt gets so so much better with MN. Ice like caduceus (Free rez vs face check, same as architect tax later), flare, and even the lowly TMI looks like fair game. Also there was a whole batch of constellation ice that are fair, but better in Making News. Hell even ash is considerably better, almost guaranteeing a second run, rather than tracing out and trashing+accessing.
2 Likes
That is a bizarrely specific timeframe. Basically last March-April? That aside, that would have been around the time of the Chronos Protocol, and a quick look through some of the NBN lists on the Winners page, none of them are Never Advance.
I think you are a little bit confused about what Never Advance was, it had a mix of traps, assets, and upgrades in order to confuse the runner, so they would never know what was installed. Not the taxing ICE SanSan NBN lists that were winning tournaments during the time period you mentioned.
3 Likes
I don’t even like FA (I stopped playing NBN NA because half my wins were from Astrotrain), but I’m still going to test Midseasons/TM (Clot) to see if it can create a “pick your poison” situation for the runner - either he lets me roll the Astrotrain or he gives me enough cash to Midseason my way to victory.
I think the main issue is going to be if a deck can comfortably support both FA and Midseason tactics.
I think it is likely there will be a meta-game shift in runner decks that will happen when Clot hits towards slower economic powerhouses like CT Doubles and Drip economy Andy. Trying to land Midseasons against them is going to be really hard.
I think so too! What will we do? I can’t wait to find out! I like that slow runner decks are/might be actually something to worry about!
The slower decks you mention are currently weaker because decks like NEH can score out before they get set up and get rich - a never advance style of play paired with a midseasons in hand can still threaten to score out quickly - I think it will be possible to move fast enough that the runner needs to steal an agenda before it is fully set up - which is the perfect time to midseasons! Maybe. Or maybe not. So exciting!
Not to mention that Kati Jones on her own is already a big problem for Midseasons.
Believe me when I say no one wants Midseasons to be a legit deck more than me. Proof: Me face rolling Andy with Midseasons at Philly regionals last year (I got 3rd, thanks for recording Apreche)
But I just don’t see it happening post clot. That deck and most FA decks win by the skin of their teeth a lot of the time and clot is going to push that tiny edge over to the other side any game where it hits. Sure you’ll win most of the blowout games despite clot, but it’s the games where’s you’re crossing your fingers on R&D accesses for 2 turns before you have the money to score out your last 2 points that I’m worried about. The runner whipping out a clot at that point in the game is devestating.
Never Advance is just a broad deck archetype that likes to install stuff in a server and leave it unadvanced this turn. Does it need to run traps or assets? Hell no. SanSan was a huge “trap” by itself back in the day and so was Breaking News or Bernice Mai into Freelancer or Closed Accounts. If a deck installs SanSan/Bernice/BN/Astro in a taxing remote this is enough for me to call it Never Advance.
2 Likes
The big thing now is that SanSan is no longer a trap or tax, as long as clot is available. This, along with runner decks being able to slow down, probably means that midseason strategies are going to be extremely difficult to pull off. This puts nbn in a really weird spot, since teaching ice is also not something they have access to. Keeping closed accounts on hand and available multiple times a game, and tagging methods to go with it, will likely be the main line of nbn play.
1 Like
The one I was working on recently is here. It uses ChiLo to add extra tax to traces like Manhunt and Viper and anecdotally it’s really taxing. The ICE is also beefy enough to actually defend a remote if necessary in the early game, helping with the rush.
Strongest part of the deck is Viper and Manhunt, the weakest part is ChiLo. I think maybe it should be Bernice Mai instead. When Chilo works it works really well at encouraging a runner to go Tag-Me (and has won me games I didn’t have a business winning because it threw off runner math about how fast they could clear things and lead to their untimely demise) but its rez cost actually seriously sucks and often times it just dissuades a runner from running the server until they can break traces. Still is a cool card and still works nicely with Manhunt and Information Overload, since those traces aren’t breakable.
EDIT: This was built without clot in mind for the current meta and I’m not sure what changes I’ll make yet when clot comes out since I’ve been experimenting with other decks lately. I suspect SanSan will get dropped for more money or more tagging, and it will probably be worth it for find a way to fit Ash in, possibly by dropping Scorch.
Tag Drizzle
NBN: Making News (Core Set)
Agenda (11)
3x AstroScript Pilot Program (Core Set)
3x NAPD Contract (Double Time)
3x Project Beale (Future Proof)
2x TGTBT (True Colors)
Asset (6)
2x Daily Business Show (All That Remains)
2x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves)
2x Melange Mining Corp. (Core Set)
Upgrade (4)
2x ChiLo City Grid (Trace Amount)
2x SanSan City Grid (Core Set)
Operation (13)
2x Archived Memories (Core Set) [color=#8A2BE2]••••[/color]
1x Closed Accounts (Core Set)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
2x Manhunt (First Contact)
1x Psychographics (Core Set)
1x Scorched Earth (Core Set) [color=#006400]••••[/color]
3x Sweeps Week (True Colors)
Barrier (3)
2x Eli 1.0 (Future Proof) [color=#8A2BE2]••[/color]
1x TMI (What Lies Ahead)
Code Gate (6)
3x Pop-up Window (Cyber Exodus)
3x Viper (Cyber Exodus) [color=#8A2BE2]•••[/color]
Sentry (6)
1x Caduceus (What Lies Ahead) [color=#006400]••[/color]
2x Data Raven (Core Set)
2x Hunter (Core Set)
1x Information Overload (The Spaces Between)
15 influence spent (max 15)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to All That Remains
Deck built on NetrunnerDB.
1 Like
Thats the kind of stuff I’m talking about. Hunter is suprisingly a pain in the ass, especially if you lean on mimic only (no DS). Have you considered 1-2 UCF? Trap ice can be very nightmarish for non-anarchs, its situational, but is a nice blowout (put behind an IO for instance).
I definitely think chilo should just be ash if you’re not running muckraker, which you shouldn’t be really. I think the 1 of scorch could just be 2 ash or more cads. Either way, pretty sweet 