I think this is overstated. NAPD gets points for being win/win for the corp and fulfilling an AP requirement for your deck. But if you know the runner is going to run it, you’d probably rather it be another ambush.
Does reversed accounts fulfil a similar role? ‘Scoring’ it is not as good as scoring NAPD, but it’s almost as tough to ‘steal’. NBN have been playing financial warfare for a while. Probably worth considering as a supplement to NAPD.
NBN glacier
Near-Earth Hub: Broadcast Center (Upstalk)
Agenda (10)
3x AstroScript Pilot Program (Core Set)
1x Corporate War (Future Proof)
3x NAPD Contract (Double Time)
3x Project Beale (Future Proof)
Asset (13)
3x Daily Business Show (All That Remains)
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves)
3x Mental Health Clinic (Honor and Profit) [color=#DC143C]••••• •[/color]
2x PAD Campaign (Core Set)
2x Reversed Accounts (Up and Over)
Upgrade (3)
2x Ash 2X3ZB9CY (What Lies Ahead) [color=#8A2BE2]••••[/color]
1x Caprice Nisei (Double Time) [color=#DC143C]••••[/color]
Operation (8)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
2x Interns (Mala Tempora)
3x Sweeps Week (True Colors)
Barrier (5)
3x Eli 1.0 (Future Proof) [color=#8A2BE2]•••[/color]
2x Wraparound (Fear and Loathing)
Code Gate (7)
1x Enigma (Core Set)
3x Pop-up Window (Cyber Exodus)
3x Tollbooth (Core Set)
Sentry (3)
3x Matrix Analyzer (Core Set)
17 influence spent (max 17)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to All That Remains
Deck built on NetrunnerDB.
My initial draft for post Clot NEH. 10 2-pointers for forced 4 agenda scoring by the runner, you get away with 3 typically because of Beale. AstroScript is usable with Reversed Accounts as some sort of pseudo-econ.
Anybody who has played redcoats should know better. 3/2’s are often times better IA or IAA’ed, particularly in Glacier.
For those that don’t know, several reasons. If you have a multi-turn scoring window where you, for instance, snapped off a breaker that the runner has to refind and reafford, you can IAA a Vitruvious, and if you don’t want the counters, A score, IA an ABT for a score next turn too. As a bonus, in the original and that scenario, this gives you a chance to put a jackson into play, or draw 1 for jackson, and then with jackson ready, trigger the ABT.
Giving yourself a click after scoring can be awesome to rush the shit out of agendas in back-to-back scoring scenarios. I built a NEXT Design deck around this concept with all 3/2s, NAPD, and no fast advance, where you could play econ, gain drips, and do almost nothing but jam back to back agendas.
This was highly effective against criminals and anarchs of old, but as more flexibility went into runner rigs, it kind of died off.
My semi serious attempt at an NEH glacier:
NEH Glacier
Near-Earth Hub: Broadcast Center
Agenda (9)
3x AstroScript Pilot Program
1x Eden Fragment
1x Hades Fragment
1x NAPD Contract
3x Project Beale
Asset (9)
2x Adonis Campaign ••••
2x Executive Boot Camp ••
3x Jackson Howard
2x Melange Mining Corp.
Upgrade (3)
2x Ash 2X3ZB9CY ••••
1x Caprice Nisei ••••
Operation (10)
2x Closed Accounts
3x Hedge Fund
2x Restructure
3x Sweeps Week
Barrier (7)
3x Eli 1.0 •••
2x Wall of Static
2x Wraparound
Code Gate (8)
2x Enigma
3x Pop-up Window
3x Tollbooth
Sentry (3)
3x Data Raven
17 influence spent (max 17)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to All That Remains
Deck built on http://netrunnerdb.com.
Very untuned. Trying to keep economy assets in the remote to combat security testing, but might be better off with Pads instead of melanges anyway to get more out of the ID ability and have a stronger R&D. Popups over pads will usually be enough be enough to deter it anyway. Bootcamp is dependent on the meta; they can be useful in tutoring up money assets, but I probably wouldn’t play them if Valencia didn’t exist.
I think any nbn glacier deck without Midway Station Grid is joking.
I think you’re joking =/
Does that sound like me?
No idea, I don’t know you at all and I don’t remember playing you recently. Whether or not you meant it seriously, I completely disagree.
Yes, I’m joking.
All this talk of IAA’ing agendas being a better plan than NA…
If the runner responds to your install by setting up pressure on another server, respond to that pressure. Next turn he’ll face the same choice again - is it an agenda in that server? I pressured the corp into not wanting to score, so I have no new information. If the runner goes all in on R&D pressure and the corp can’t respond, the runner wins no matter what you played in the server.
An NA deck is perfectly capable of IA or IAA - it’s an important skill to find those windows where you should do it. But NA is a way to create such windows by draining the runner if he checks your server.
This isn’t a glacier deck. Adding Ash and Caprice to an NBN deck, and taking out SSCG, does not make it glacier. Glacier is about building a remote that is expensive to get into (twice, often) and this deck cannot do that. You have way too much cheap gear check ICE to be glacier, the only expensive ICE being Tollbooth.
There was never anything original or innovating about creating a scoring server and using cards that disguise as other cards when installed in that server. To be fair to lluluien though as soon as someone posts a working deck and names it (as all people feel the need to) the public takes off with that name and then it becomes an archetype. Same thing happened with “red coats”.
@linuxmaier if you are going to use Chilo in MN then I strongly suggest working trolls in that deck. well certainly if you were to go to 3 (shrug)
@hhooo I’d like to +2 your leela comment as well. I found myself doing the same thing with agendas so I could avoid the impending tidal wave. especially if logos was out.
I have been musing about what nbn deck I will take to regionals and one of the things I have been experimenting with is taking the “scorched earth” mentality and applying it to closed accounts. Many of the decks people make with NBN (including myself often) are tag punishment and attempting to have a variety of it in a deck. NBN right now just can’t handle the card-space of creating tags and having a variety of punishment (without singletons). What made the scorched earth TWIY/MN decks functional was the narrow focus on one tag punishment card, the only tag punishment card that actually wins you the game instead of giving you a window to score. I am wondering if that mentality can work with closed accounts. So far I have not been successful with balancing the ICE with other cards that generate tags. With closed accounts as the focus you can effectively have 6 of them with universal connectivity, so perhaps that will help give it an edge. The unfortunate hurdles however have been positioning and eater (as it chomps universals one lame sub).
The other I have been experimenting with is a single scoring server with traps in it. If valencia is enough of a factor in a persons meta this type of deck might be the way to combat that component in a tournament, again especially if this clot card functions as guessed.
This is that deck in its first iteration. Many of the cards are just in there for experimenting but you get the gist. The largest issue is finding an early snoop and getting counters on it as it is extremely helpful in killing the runner.
It has not been detrimental to sometimes advance and sometimes not.
Right now I think there are too many melange’s. There is enough incentive to provoke a run on the scoring/kill server without the 3rd melange.
NBN Net-Kill Deck Ver: 1.0
NBN: Making News (Core Set)
Agenda (11)
3x AstroScript Pilot Program (Core Set)
1x Chronos Project (First Contact)
1x Gila Hands Arcology (Creation and Control)
3x NAPD Contract (Double Time)
3x Project Beale (Future Proof)
Asset (14)
1x Cerebral Overwriter (Creation and Control) [color=#8A2BE2]••[/color]
1x Edge of World (Cyber Exodus) [color=#DC143C]••[/color]
1x GRNDL Refinery (Fear and Loathing) [color=#006400]••[/color]
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves)
2x Marked Accounts (Cyber Exodus)
3x Melange Mining Corp. (Core Set)
1x Project Junebug (Core Set) [color=#DC143C]•[/color]
2x Snare! (Core Set) [color=#DC143C]••••[/color]
Upgrade (4)
3x SanSan City Grid (Core Set)
1x Self-destruct (The Source)
Operation (4)
2x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
2x Sweeps Week (True Colors)
Barrier (6)
2x Eli 1.0 (Future Proof) [color=#8A2BE2]••[/color]
2x Wall of Static (Core Set)
2x Wraparound (Fear and Loathing)
Code Gate (7)
3x Pop-up Window (Cyber Exodus)
1x RSVP (True Colors)
1x Tollbooth (Core Set)
2x Viper (Cyber Exodus) [color=#8A2BE2]••[/color]
Sentry (3)
3x Snoop (Mala Tempora)
15 influence spent (max 15)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to The Source
Deck built on NetrunnerDB.
I don’t think NBN Never Advance can be reduced to that, but I do think that describes a particular strategy. Archetypes don’t have to be original, they just have to be characterized and distinct from other archetypes.
Yep. I don’t have that pack or it would almost certainly go in, as it taxes money or clicks and throwing it infront of ChiLo adds another credit/click tax to it.
I have been doing this for a long time and it’s really really good.
That being said, the benefit of Never Advance is that the runner doesn’t know what is an agenda and what isn’t. IAA telegraphs agenda because advancable nonagendas aren’t nearly as good as nonadvancable nonagendas.
Yeah I’ve been on it since about round 3 of worlds last year and I’ve seen maybe one person do this against me in that time period? That’s why I had to make a post about it. I also hadn’t played RP more than half a dozen times before worlds, and the last 4/2 I tried to score a bunch was Character Assassination at worlds 2013.
@ulrikdan - There are definitely downsides, absolutely, but the major point is that I think now, and in the near future, the upsides to IAA on most of your agendas will far outweigh the potential lost credits and clicks if the runner does get in.
@Milchtee, @RotomAppliance - While I do like the approaches here, and I completely agree that full redesigns of NBN will be necessary, I think the most important NBN Agenda will be Breaking News, especially in a slower build. It’s easily the third best agenda in the game currently, I think if the game slows down, it will be the most important threat in NBN’s cardpool. Running two, if not the full 3, will be a mistake. Breaking News into Closed accts and/or Kati trashing will be the way you win games, followed by a rush for several following turns. 5/3s in NBN has essentially never been played competitively, but they may go alongside BN, I really doubt they will be played instead of it.
@x3r0h0ur - We’re playing around with Midway in a few decks right now. It’s probably not good enough, but it certainly throws people for a loop. I wouldn’t immediately write it off.
The only way I can see using it is with interns, and lots of reasons to run Interns. The issue I have had in testing is that rezzing glaciery ice is too much to also pay 4 to rez midway. At least with NBN’s style of econ. 3 HF 3 Sweeps with 3 Marked and 3 PAD is awesome econ for a Fast Adv deck, but for glacier its far too little if you plan on rezzing 4+ strength taxers.
License acquisition makes a nice add if you’re running 3/5 agendas as you should in glacier (with midway), since APP is actually less valuable if you’re not FA’ing. So my spread was 2 RDP 3 PR and 3 LA with 1 BN I think.
Out of left field…
Try out Eliza’s Toybox for high stress runner pressure. With bernice and data raven etc, tags + trashing it will slow the runner to a crawl, but you tie up lots of influence. That said free Tollbooths and other splashed-for big ice are super nice.
I disagree. I think it can be reduced to that, at which point the choice is “why”.
RE: IAA
That may have changed a bit with reversed accounts. I can’t say it justifys the strategy but it must at the least edge it to legitimacy.
Excellent points, @hhooo. IAA as the norm (I’ve been running RP like that for some time) also can lead to bringing back traps. Most traps really bare their teeth starting at 2 advancement counters. Frequently, in HB and RP, I’ll install the agenda, leave a turn or two, then advance twice and defend it more. Can NBN do this? Unknown.
Also, Leela is the best.