Red Dead Re-Deadcoats

[quote=“Saan, post:20, topic:9322”]
Ben Musashi
[/quote]Great idea.
I think I could remove both Battys for them, or just throw a couple Snares! because old school best school, especially if I go the Heritage Comitee route (Butcher shop played draw, and the deck at times “feels” a little like it).
I question Battys because I’m not convinced about 2x non-reinstall (you need to draw, install, 2/3rd it with a nice ice, and use very few recursion, and this use 2 slots).
If you look your subs, even a couple of Hokusaï would be a better choice than Battys I think (beside the 1xCobra).

Campaign is usefull to carrot the remote without killing an ([trash]2/3 mostly etr, sometimes 1-net the dude) Batty or a (I’ll access it anyway) Ash for that ?
Also, not enough Transactions for those 3 inf Stinsons I think (only 6, Gifts are pure doubles). I’d rather put 2xMelange there, and there you’re sure the guy have to pay for remote run trash that, while you draw 1-melange.

Red Dead Redemption

Pālanā Foods: Sustainable Growth
49 cards
Influence: 15/15 ●​●​●​●​●​●​●​●​●​●​●​●​●​●​●​
Agenda points: 21
Tournament legal
Agenda (7)
1 Improved Protein Source
3 Obokata Protocol :mu:
3 The Future Perfect
Asset (2)
2 Melange Mining Corp.
ICE (15)
1 Aiki
1 Chiyashi
1 DNA Tracker
2 Errand Boy ●​●​
1 Ice Wall ●​
2 Komainu
1 Lockdown
1 Macrophage
2 Mirāju
2 Quicksand
1 Susanoo-no-Mikoto
Operation (21)
2 "Clones are not People"
3 Celebrity Gift
2 Consulting Visit ○​○​○​○​○​○​
1 Fast Track
3 Hedge Fund
1 Heritage Committee ○​○​
3 IPO
1 MCA Informant ●​●​
2 Preemptive Action
3 Punitive Counterstrike ●​●​●​●​●​●​
Upgrade (4)
2 Ash 2X3ZB9CY ●​●​●​●​
2 Hokusai Grid

Hokusai acts like ice #16 and #17 like in Jinteki oldschool pre-profiteering days and with the Obokata synergy replace Batty with an advantage there (can’t steal if you don’t have prevent or 5 cards in hand, or may ask 4c and then you may Punitive back).
The combo " Clone are not Protein" won me more games that it made me lose so this is a solid #7 (I even could make a Fast Clone are not Protein T7, T8, T9 gg). This happens in 10% of games or so.
This may or may not loose to bypass decks like Sunny’s. This really depends of draws.
It depends about conditions but Obokata - Punitives opens very very unusual and strange scoring windows that makes you rush early Obokata in naked servers.
The deck is either rushing or stalling depending of your needs, it’s very agile IF you draw ice I agree. Agenda fload still happens and will make you loose. Ice misery still hapen and will make you loose.
But as it is, the deck meet most of my expectations.

I love your idea, Saan.

I retooled my version back into Palana, but kept Archived memories in place of the second Ash. To make up for only 1 Ash, I added x2 Ben Musashi. It’s also worth noting that Archived can be used to get Ash back.

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Excalibur is the other removed card I guess ? (Excaliben sort of work though)
So you’re @14 ices, I’m @15 and @Saan still enjoys his Statics & 3x big codegates vs Shaper + Lady + TTW ? (trolling, sorry.).

In theory, Kakugo / Ben transforms any Obokata in difficult to steal 5/4 (because the flow asks you to put Obo & Ben there the same turn : IIA, then AAA, then A clone or consulting clone).
But this asks 3 cards + Kakugo + 2 turns during the runner can play Critic like a Mill + go fetch advanced stuff that none of us have a reply for (MCA ends the turn, then mkay the runner got a tag, woooo so much danger), so the conditions seems to be quite difficult to meet, no ?

Any runner drawing 2x Critics can void the deck.
Just any. The only reason it works is because critic runner either play noobishly, topdeck critic and noobishly rush install it saying “Haha! WHODOYOUGONNACALL” (I’m part of these childish runners btw) and then you reply MCA “GHOSTBUSTERS!” (I’m part of these childish corpos btw), or just doesn’t draw their breakcon or get rushed.

Now, Shapers, that 100% of them should play Scavenge/Lady/Tapwrm/Dummybox instead of PClips, so these Shapers VS here, those ice distrib made of all-in-one “got DNA, that’s an uber codegate you dirty Shaper” ?

Beside Komainus, I see nothing that makes problems to Shapers there. Say your Shaper’s breakers are Ladys / whatever some uber decoder / Nanot’k + Aumakua as a backup, which seems to be the least inf goto suite, what do you rez to stop the dude ?

This deck need swiftness, Kakugo maybe, Hokusai maybe, in my opinion. Because those cards combat runners keeping stuff in hand. And then just stop pretending Pup makes work there when they does not. If you want to rez bothering 1c’s, then rez Aiki and throws Pups in the river where they belongs.

Deckbuilding 101 says more subs than total of ice within a family, and more str than total of ice within a family, and I see problems in all your distrib there. Meaning runners having exploits because of your designs, and not because of theirs.
Exemple : most killers and most fracters against your distrib never pumps. Consequence, subs never hit. Now let’s see where are all your etr mmm… On 1str ice. Cool. Let’s use the R&D diggable Batty steam machine to colmate that 0-day then, and just pretend R&D with more 1c trash cards because of strange ice distrib design is ok when you play 7/49 1str ice.
Because well, I guess those 2-part sort of Snowflakes becomes better today than they were before they rotated. Won’t say I understand totally the logic behind Battys.

Kakugo terribly helps against that, sure. But they are not cheap. My choice is the one that can’t be talked about.
Anarch plays PClips, Kakugo are a nice clic tax for them but that makes them draw dirty stuff. They will have problem against codegates if they don’t splash Shaper’s uberdecoder, that’s it. They may very much do that.
And now Criminal, for them Sentry are null, playing PClip, having trouble with kakugo only, and then they will have trouble against codegates only, like always if they use cheap decoders.
Forgot someone ? Yeah sure : Shaper which seems to be the strongest faction got cool decoders and crap pumping killer/decoder but doesn’t mind => throw your ice away against 1/3 of the field. The Critic faction exploit your distribs guys.

If this rule exist, it’s not to be forgotten only 3 years after Darwinsucker popped up just because “yay no more Parasite!” : 1str ice was crap ice, and today it is just permacrap ice.
Now when I see “all barrier are 1str!” or “all sentry are 1str!”, then the runner just say “cool. Then I guess I’ll install a barrier/killer and… well, that it ? just break the sub I don’t want ?”

Komainu / Batty just doesn’t exist. Or you’ve found a prototype of runner facechecking Jinteki with 0c or no killer and in that case if you have 6-7c go for the 66%-100% kill.

Could be okay if it was gearcheck rushy stuff. In that case, then put draw in the middle of there.

My conclusions leads me to these 15 ices :

  • Chiyashi (my answer to Crim & Shapers) / (Kakugo or QS) / Ice wall x 2 : total str 11+, sub 6,
  • DNA (my answer to Crim & Anarch) / Aiki / Lockdown / Macrophage / Miraju x2 : total str 21, sub 5-9 (only “flaw” is DNA’s 3 + Aiki’s 2 then ignore the others. I’m fine with this. Not breaking lockdown is an error and people pays for unbroke aiki anyway).
  • Susano (my answer to Shaper & Anarch) / Komainu x 2 / Swordman / Errand boy : total str 11, sub 6+komainus
    Hard etr + deflect ratio = 1/3 (which is lame for a glacier)
    Total cost : 59-60.
    Money provided by econ : 60 if melange stays one turn (+28 if melange stays 3 turns like the launch camp does) + ID paying for install cost + then me clicking creds, not in all games, for ops & agenda, recurence out of the equation.
    Money provided by both of your econs : 58 + ID + 6c from 6x clic cred (those clicks of my melange, +12c if my melange stays 3 turns), recurence out of the equation.

Saan’s 16 cost is 65 and 14 of yours cost 61 with Saan’s econ.
Now I’d agree I sound what you want me both to sound but if you have problems with your ice or econ I’d try something a little more taxing :confused:

Removing a Swordman for Kakugo or QS is about what I use now. I use QS because (insert another wall of text), anyway I want better economical arguments against it. I have somehow a problem seeing it criticized by people putting Pup in their decks when jinteki is the 1c wtf faction.

I’m coming around on the Aiki idea, but I really don’t like the fact that the runner can just break the net damage and then bid 1 to draw a couple cards. It almost never makes sense for me to bid more than 0, because I don’t want to have a constant drain on my economy just because the runner decides they like running through my ICE. I’m Palana, so the runner drawing cards has the potential of paying me a credit, but this is also assuming that they didn’t already have plans of drawing cards this turn anyhow. As a matter of fact, if they wanted to spend a click drawing a card or two this turn, I’m actually giving them action economy by letting them draw off my Aiki. Obviously I can bet 1 if I think they probably want to draw, but (as I mentioned) that can be a drain, and it can also backfire if they bet 0 because now I’ve paid a credit for the pleasure of giving my opponent 2 cards.

Either way, I’m testing it over the Pups. I also took out Cobra, because the runner almost never runs against Jinteki without a Sentry breaker, and it’s not like running 1 Cobra and 2 Batty gives me reliable Batty targets. Beyond that, Cobra is just a 2c tax for a 4c rez. So now my Pups are Aikis, and Cobra is a Pup =P

I prefer Yagura over Pups most of the time. It is a drain for the runner and if they don’t break it you get a ton of utility out of it.

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Totally agree, I was super excited to see Yagura saved and Yog out. It’s such a great little piece of R&D defense. And if you already have one on R&D a Yagura in front of a Miraju on HQ is pretty funny too.

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Gosh, half the work is done, hahaha.
You can’t really say the runner break Aiki for economically nothing though, even if left outermost and I’d rather the runner to gain card homework than eco homework in this deck.
Also, psi patterns aren’t something you should overlook. Just pay 0 everytimes, then use 1c at one point that is important in phase 1.5/2. Then until the end of the game, the runner may pay and your Aiki just transforms in some sort of a very expensive popup window.

Plus, Aiki punish facecheck when Pup doesn’t.

Now, the wall of text about QS :
(j/k)

But there, just use Kakugos, dude : Statics are just voided by Lady these days.
Our nat champ says in substance that Kakugo are better than QS that are better than Statics, in the actual format.

He also agrees with Mining instead of Launch in this archetype. Launch have no real meaning.

Because for Launchs, either you put it naked or not :

Naked :
You draw it, then drop it, rez it for 1c and win 2c.
Next turn runner go there and trash it.

Here, the card use two of your clics and gain you one cred to burn 2c + 1 clic of the runner. Conclusion, you could had better passive R&D defense with beanstalks.

Not naked:
You draw it in the remote, then drop it, rez 1c gain 2c. The runner wait and you won 5c total. That’s a Restructure.

Whereas mining means the runner may have to run the remote and drop some aggro on some of your servers. Watch him pay 8-9c through your ice to throw your used mining or you’ll soon be stupid rich, which is a winning condition with Ash.
Or watch him burn himself through some Komainus (that your mining just pays) or whatever ice because money means lots at the point of this match. Because mining are a better baiter than any launch campaign.

Just imagine yourself in front of a corp, running 2 remotes : in one case you found Launch, in the other case you found Mining.
If you can only trash one card, which one do you choose ?

Aka which turn is better :

  • clic whatever, clic run unrezzed mining, clic run unrezzed launch, clic rerun mining trash mining
  • clic whatever, clic run unrezzed launch, clic run unrezzed mining, clic rerun launch trash launch

?

My answer to that is first scenario is less dangerous for the runner, so I put it in the deck :slight_smile:

I understand the agility of launch but after lots of games with both, minings did more work I think.