Refining the Process: Twins Foundry

Decklists
61

Doesn’t rezzing them with those effects ‘replicate’ those copies into hand, keeping them ready for the twins?

Edit: I get it, the conditional triggers. I see.

62

Yes, but if the runner breaks the installed ice, you can’t use Twins to make them encounter it again.

1 Like
63

So he needs mutate to remove the conditional, get a new fatty, and rez it. I see.

64

Right, a bit of anti-synergy there. I caught most of his games as I was walking around and noticed he was not using Twins on the same server he was using BER/OAI on. He typically saved Twins for a Merlin server while using BER/OAI on a Heimdall/Janus server.

2 Likes
65

I tried Ryan’s deck and it seems very unrefined, but the general idea is cool.

Awakening Center always sucks, so that’s automatically out. Way too many STR 4 ICE as well for my tastes.

I think the deck lives and dies on how many OAI/BER you can draw. To ever beat Shaper that number has to be larger than the amount of times they can recur Deus X/Sharpshooter and efficiently derez your stuff.

So I’m going to try DBS and some Archived to boost that number. My list for local league tonight:

Big Bio (49 cards)

The Foundry: Refining the Process

Agenda (9)
3 Accelerated Beta Test 1 NAPD Contract 2 Priority Requisition 3 Project Vitruvius
Asset (10)
3 Adonis Campaign 2 Daily Business Show •• 1 Eliza's Toybox 2 Eve Campaign 2 Jackson Howard ••
Upgrade (2)
2 The Twins ••
Operation (11)
2 Archived Memories 3 Bioroid Efficiency Research 3 Hedge Fund 3 Oversight AI ••••• •
Barrier (6)
3 Eli 1.0 3 Wotan
Code Gate (5)
2 Enigma 3 Merlin •••
Sentry (6)
3 Ichi 2.0 3 Janus 1.0

Built with http://netrunner.meteor.com/

2 Likes
66

Interesting. He has a few ideas going on there which I played around with in the very first iteration of the deck (multiple Wotans for example) but which I noved away from. At the time I was running Merlin as my only grail as well and I think he might be right on that point. Galahad is of limited value because they can ETR; I’d find it harder to part with Lancelot but not the end of the world. Losing the Grails also opens up the Boot Camp/NEXT/Troubleshooter never advance approach as an alternative possibility come The Valley.

1 Like
67

I have a Foundry Twins deck I’ve been playing lately with a good bit of success. It’s very similar to this, but instead of grail ice, I use NEXT ice, IQ, and Ashigaru. Then I splash Research Stations to make them monstrous. Not many runners can get through multiple Ashigarus with 9-11 subroutines each in a single shot, and Vitruvius counters can give you more scoring windows. I also included a couple Bifrost Arrays to further abuse the ABT/Foundry interaction.

68

Parasite not popular in your area?

(I’d ask the same question about Morning Star, but my area is probably the only one where MS is actually popular :P)

1 Like
69

If they’ve got Parasite, they’re also going to have to deal with 11-strength IQs. If I get any other big ice off an ABT, Those D4V1Ds are going to be putting in overtime.

70

This is my post-Valley build. Although it boosts a 100% record in OCTGN the sample size is so small and the deck’s weaknesses (cough parasite) so obvious that I’m not claiming it’s a world beater. It is an absolute pig to run against though because an unadvanced card can be such a wide variety of things - some of which you need to run, some of which will kill you if you run them and each of which screw over a specific solution to the ICE the deck runs.

No biotics because Clot (and the economy doesn’t really support them), but SanSan works well - it’s another face-down threat that they need to react to, and not many peoples’ immediately response to an IA behind an upgrade in Foundry is “I need Clot now”.

The Foundry: Refining the Process (The Spaces Between)

Agenda (11)
3x Accelerated Beta Test (Core Set)
3x Project Vitruvius (Cyber Exodus)
2x Gila Hands Arcology (Creation and Control)
3x NAPD Contract (Double Time)

Asset (7)
3x Adonis Campaign (Core Set)
2x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves) ••
2x Executive Boot Camp (All That Remains) ••

Upgrade (8)
2x Corporate Troubleshooter (Core Set)
2x SanSan City Grid (Core Set) ••••• • (sometimes -1 of these +1 wormhole)
2x Ash 2X3ZB9CY (What Lies Ahead)
2x The Twins (Order and Chaos) ••

Operation (6)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
3x Peak Efficiency (Up and Over) (this is the most problematic slot in the deck, if I could solve I’d be much happier. Peak arguably accentuates the deck’s biggest weakness, but BLC was clogging my hand to much and restructure doesn’t quite fit)

Barrier (8)
2x Wall of Static (Core Set) (IQ would be better if I could solve the money situation - see above)
3x Eli 1.0 (Future Proof)
3x NEXT Silver (Upstalk)

Code Gate (6)
3x NEXT Bronze (Opening Moves)
3x Merlin (All That Remains) •••

Sentry (3)
3x NEXT Gold (The Valley)

15 influence spent (maximum 15)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to The Valley

71

How often do you get runners to bounce? Successful Demonstration maybe?

3 Likes
72

I’ve become a big fan of running 2x Subliminal Messaging in my experiments with Twins Foundry.

3 Likes
73

I like the sound of this idea and am definitely going to experiment with it.

74

Rarely is peak efficiency good to run more than 2, I stick to 1 for my foundry, and I use archived memories on it if the game drags on, and it can quite often. I’d also not run clearances because of the ice replicating effect being a draw when you don’t want it (but you do WANT the ice). I slotted in sweeps week as a 2 of and it was quite good (2 more chances at hedge fund in your opener is very good).

1 Like
75

I like the build! If you catch a runner their pants down it can end just like that- that being said, most people (should) expect Grail and NEXT in Foundry, so you need to get a scoring remote up asap since their response is usually just “build my rig as fast as I can”. EBC is great for getting yourself self-started, but what I REALLY like is your use of CT. It gets a lot of flak but it is a perfect fit if you are running EBC to rez NEXT ice to act as gearchecks.

That said the deck seems like it can’t reliably jump on scoring early because of econ issues (like you mentioned). I feel that if you can’t get Foundry working for you early (reliably) ETF is where you should turn, but in this case you can’t because of how unreliable the Twins becomes. Sweeps really seems like the best you can do (Shell Corp in your Twins server as extra econ/run bait?) to get the credit swings you need. Also a 3rd EBC (or a single Tech Startup to act as a poor man’s EBC since you want Sweeps) would go a long way, and mean your first remote ice doesn’t have to go to protect Adonis while you coast on burst ops and start discount rezzing.

76

Loving the idea, and working on something similar. I do think you’re investing a bit too many cards in the kill combo though. As you said, your econ doesn’t supports the stuff you want to do.

I’d cut Ash, Merlin, perhaps a sansan. For ice suit I’d go with 3x3 NEXT, 3 eli, 3 architect and 3x pop up (or 3x lotus field to counter parasites).

For econ I like celeb gift + restructure, adonis, 1-2 subl messaging, 1 melange (dig for it with bootcamp at an opportune moment), shell corp is nice if you get stabilized, Eve campaign if you can protect it with pop up, need to experiment but definitely more than you have now.

I’d also swap a gila hands for Haas pet project, really great to get a campaign and parasited NEXT ice back in play.

1 Like
77

I think that’s the central problem of the deck. It’s very easy to score early against anyone who has the faintest idea of what the deck is capable of. The trick is doing it in a way that doesn’t cripple your economy for long enough for them to score some points straight back. Gila or ABT go a long way here as a first agenda, but if you don’t see one of them or get an unlucky ABT flip you can find yourself in trouble quickly.

Obviously, any HB deck the “play it in ETF” solution is going to present itself. But the thing that makes the deck work is manipulating the runner’s fears. Without Merlin + The Twins or the ability to spawn NEXT ICE quickly and threaten Troubleshooter or Twins + Gold, the deck loses a lot of its fear factor. Then you’re basicly into taxing the runner, at which point you are just playing a worse version of ETF toolbox that swings massively based on whether the opponent plays parasite or not.

I feel a single Melange is a good idea - multiples make R&D too porous IMO - and Melange makes Restructure possible. I’m not sure where I’d find the Sweeps or Celeb Gift influence from (and Celeb Gift would undermine my game plan), although I am a massive fan of both in HB in general.

Successful Demo is too weak against PVP Kate to my mind. Subliminal Messaging is more interesting - although I find it’s rare to have a turn when the runner doesn’t run somewhere. I tried Eve in the old version and it just clogs your remote for too long or gets trashed for neg 3. Shell Corp seems more promising. It’s slow but it fits the them and hiding it behind Twins (or “Twins”) is a reasonable shot and you often have spare clicks to fund it. I think that would the one I would try next. Pop-Up would be nice, if I can cope with losing a SanSan.

I’d love Pet Project and Chronos in here, but I think I need the economy sorted first. Gila is too important atm. ASH is almost always the best upgrade in the deck and definitely isn’t going out.

3 Likes
78

Why do you like Ash so much? He’s really great to turn an economic advantage into a score, but that’s not your strategy. And you definitely need more econ slots, so why not start here?
Never been a fan of successful demo either, definitely not in a deck that plans to rez ice, as now the runner has an even better idea if he can get in or not.
Eve definitely only if you have enough cheap ice (pop up) to protect it. It’s slow econ, but it also helps to protect against syphon and can serve as a bluff for an agenda. But it’s also not my favourite.
Melange + restructure seems very much feast or famine. If you can milk melange a bit, you don’t need restructure very much anymore. It’s better to have cards that enable you to afford a melange server ($ to rez the defense).

A question, how do you get most of your kills? With Gold or Merlin? Boosted by troubleshooter or twins, or both?

79

In this version I’ve got most of my wins by scoring points. Most people know what to expect now, so flatlines are rare but the time and resources they spend dodging them lets me score. ASH is great for scoring behind (early game the 4 trace is normally enough) and also protecting Adonis. It also does stirling work pretending to be Twins/Sansan etc and likewise they do stirling work prerending to be ASH.

80

This is the version i’m currently trying…
Twins is nice yup but liked it was said, when someone knows what you’re doing the surprise factor goes to off… i find it still useful to instill fear towards the runner
I tried Komainu at first… yup it can surprise but
Along with Caprice, you never know what exactly the remote has…
So early scoring hopefully for ABT is always an option

Eliza’s is there for dual purposes, to ward off against Valencia or set up fairly quickly a monster server where needed. Originally it was 3 Eve but found out that despite the time it takes, Eliza’s has it’s usefulness long term as well…

MMC works good still with the idea of multiple stuff you can start remotes with, it’ll make the runner second guess. Main weakness is that on an R&D lock, it’s easy trash to continue the dig…

Twins Foundry

The Foundry: Refining the Process

Agenda (10)
3x Accelerated Beta Test
1x Efficiency Committee
3x NAPD Contract
3x Project Vitruvius

Asset (12)
3x Adonis Campaign
3x Eliza’s Toybox
3x Jackson Howard •••
3x Melange Mining Corp.

Upgrade (5)
2x Caprice Nisei ••••• •••
3x The Twins •••

Operation (4)
3x Hedge Fund
1x Interns

Barrier (6)
3x Eli 1.0
3x NEXT Silver

Code Gate (3)
3x NEXT Bronze

Sentry (8)
2x Ichi 2.0
3x Janus 1.0
3x NEXT Gold

Other (1)
1x Mother Goddess

14 influence spent (max 15)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to The Valley

Deck built on http://netrunnerdb.com.